MamaM said...
Althouse has never said one untoward thing against Ritmo. Who is this "ritmo"?
The agenda being pursued by AllieOop/Inga and Ritmo over at TOP is one they publicly discussed on his blog before he closed it down.
The way I see it, Ritmo's been playing the game of derailment for a long time. As Montana Urban Legend, his original approach involved long tedious circuitous rambles which rarely intersected with other commenters and primarily served to kill and derail threads through boredom, including apparently, his own. His second transformation involved the inclusion of more direct argument which yielded a more entertaining and engaging exchange but kept the discussion too closely on track for successful derailment. To up the ante and prevent his ass from regularly being handed to him, psychological manipulation was added to the mix, with polarizing and shaming practiced along with selective praise. Through it all the agenda and result appears to be the same.
IMO, consistently advancing a goal of domination, derailment and destruction is not good faith behavior. Althouse sees it differently.
This is a very astute comment by MamaM but there is more going on then meets the eye. I have actually spoken to Ritmo on the phone. He is a pretty intelligent guy and I think I have a lot in common with him. You see we are both arrogant fucks who think any intelligent person would think the same way we do. So we don't suffer fools gladly. He is on the ultra liberal side and I am on the ultra conservative side. At one time I found myself doing a lot of the stuff he is doing now. Only better. You see I would beat up on some liberal fools at TOP like hdhouse. Of course I tried to be funny and mock them in a way that would win people to my point of view. But after a while I realized that was a mugs game. I mean I went so far as to apologize to hdhouse and we developed an decent internet relationship. I hope I have learned enough that I can let other people have an opinion even a wrong headed one like hd. Ritmo is not there yet. He likes to fight. To mix it up. To spew invective and nasty comments. Shit that's fun. It's like doing drugs. Or getting drunk. People are constantly saying how bad it is but they never say that it is fun. Just sayn'
After my big blowup with the evil bloggr lady over J, there were a couple of long threads about it. At the end of one a commenter called sorepaw did the most complete and correct analysis of TOP that I have ever seen. He noted that the evil blogger lady never slaps around the liberal trolls. She cossets them. You see they rile up her commenters who are mostly conservative. So she gets comments and hits and page views and all that good shit. Which it is all about for the evil queen. Her preening self regard instructs all of her actions. So liberal trolls who bring comment totals to riduclous heights of over 800\ comments.
Now Inga is a different story.
She is just a cunt.
103 comments:
Didn't chick actually make this comment?
tits.
No Titus he did not.
Ok troop, sorry, I don't follow this as closely.
I was wrong.
tits.
I pretty much agree with MamaM. I can tolerate disagreement, Troop. And I know that ritmo is intelligent from things he's said on my blog about science. I don't mind him pushing back at me either. He writes extremely well and comes up with original malapropisms (which Inga usually proceeds to overuse). But honest to blog he doesn't make me laugh enough. I would say some wit is lacking. He's not at all like you. It's not politics either. Some of the other libs over there can rip good ones --even garage. He's too Cook. Now, he might be a part time character or something who gets jollies out for others as somebody else--that might explain some of his humor deprivation as ritmo.
Lastly, I've recently seen the way he's ripped into darcy, vbspurs, synova, freeman, wyo sis, DBQ, and many others. His sidekick went after reader. They are my favorite female commenters over there. It may sound sexist of me but that pains me.
@Titus: I said that ↑
Inga has changed her name to Zsa Zsa.
Gabore?
I think that Ritmo has been unlucky in love and so he rips into the girls. Especially strong opinionated women. Some guys can't handle a strong woman.
Ritmo can be funny and personable when he is not in extreme attack mode.
But hey maybe my perspective is skewed.
I know that he does not appreciate Palladian's sense of humor. I think they would get along in real life since I am one of the few who has actually talked to both of them in reality. But who knows?
The Alpha and the Zha Zha! Someone new to the place via Insty thought for a while that she was the appointed site administrator tasked with running the show! What that says about the show and the actual administration is telling. Those in charge of assessing bad faith let it happen. What she says when she's in victim mode may look like "conversation" to them; but it doesn't fit my definition. I hear the phrases she repeats over and over in whatever drama she's created or entered as clutter diverting from the point of the post by making it all about her.
Yes, she adds drama; but she also destroys conversation when she turns it to be all about her, as "site administrator" or victim.
Personally, I've opted for real life, which doesn't seem to have treated many of these people terribly well.
Palladian's sense of humor
Is that what you call it?
Trooper, You insisted Shouting Thomas and I would get along. You are the matchmaker from hell.
Tim you have a very legitimate beef with Palladian.
He is actually a big softie. He puts on the curmudgeon persona and it fits him like a glove.
He does owe you an apology.
And your real life comment is on the money.
Many of us looked at comment on a blog as a chance to meet similarly intelligent people from all over the country that we would never get to interact with in our own little bailiwicks.
I never would have met smart people like Chickenlittle or blake or Dust Bunny Queen or AllenS or Sixty Grit or any of the rest of you knuckleheads. So I am very grateful that we got to get into a conversation because of blogging.
Spinelli you are like me in that you have enough experience in the world that you can pretty much get along with anyone. Shouting Thomas is a character that you have sat next to in the bar many a time. You can have a couple of boilermakers and shrug when he goes off on a tirade.
TTBurnett said...
Personally, I've opted for real life, which doesn't seem to have treated many of these people terribly well.
I'm an el pollo realist: I know people tolerate me because I taste good and not because I have good taste.
Troop, I'm surprised we've never spoken on the phone. I've talked to several others. Maybe we should do a conference call someday.
The Royal Chicken talkin' to Duke Wayne - I can hear it now, sounds like a scene from TMWSLV. Yuh huh, Pilgrim...
I would like to take this opportunity to once again apologize to everyone I have been rude to over the years, both here and at TOP. I sincerely regret having written mean things about people I have grown to like and respect.
I am trying to keep a low profile WRT commenting - I still tend to launch on subjects that I have history with, and that's not good. Staying busy, staying down like Tyrion Lannister, that's what I have to do.
Let me know when the conference call occurs - I will be the guy with the southern accent, according to one person here. I have a different opinion about accents, but what are you going to do, am I right?
Trooper, You're correct, I can get along w/ most anyone. However, the older I get the more I say to myself, "Life's too short to spend it w/ assholes." I have become more and more selective, particularly the last 10-15 years.
One of the most disconcerting things about living in upstate New York is that the born and bred upstaters have no accent, absolutely non-regional. I mean that's a good thing and I wish I were raised to talk like a real mainstream type American but when you've grown up among New Yawkers who order cawfee, well...it's like a lack. I mean these folks don't even drawl he he he.
I love the Boston accent. It's interesting though because it is such an international and collegiate town you don't always hear it.
Locals who tend to not be educated have a strong Boston accent.
Others, not so much.
I sometimes pretend I have it when I am in Revere or somewhere where it is prevalent just so as not to stick out as a fag.
Did I tell you when I first moved out here they called me Elley May Clampett, you know, from The Beverly Hillbillies? I was devastated. Constant mockery of being a cheesehead. It hurt terribly. Even though Wisconsin isn't too "hillbilly". They also asked me is Wisconsin is by Idaho and they were actually serious. They had no idea where it was. They call Boston the hub of the universe and the peeps here really believe it....unless they travel to the West Coast or Miami.
tits.
They called this other poor queen from Kentucky Jane Hathaway because he actually looked like her. Years later he ended up having major plastic surgery. Now he looks like Fire Marshall Bob from In Living Color.
At least Elley May was purdy.
Nobody loves me, Titus.
Now, on a lighter note: when do you think the United States will collapse?
I love you Ricpic.
You are funny and smart and a jew-I love the jews big time.
tits.
I was first introduced to the term "gatekeeper" at a church growth seminar some years ago. Gatekeepers who work in tandem with an owner of an establishment perform a valid function, but those who assume authority that doesn't belong to them or present a message out of sync or character with what the "homeowner" would desire, do the homeowner and those who come to visit a disservice.
In media, gatekeeping is defined as": the process of culling and crafting countless bits of information into the limited number of messages that reach people everyday, and it is the center of the media's role in modern public life. This process determines not only which information is selected, but also what the content and nature of the messages, such as news, will be."
I originally came to Althouse through an Instapundit link and figuring out the players took a while. Back then, (just prior to Ann/Meade's courtship) the bad faith was fairly easy to spot. I don't know what it's like now for someone entering Althouse for the first time without a playlist, but I imagine it might be confusing to encounter Inga functioning not only as a media meme gatekeeper, but also as someone who has some sort of administrative authority-- enough to cause an recent guest (who presented as articulate and intelligent professional person ) to mistakenly believe Inga in some way represented or spoke for Althouse as her blog administrator.
The "just ignore them and scroll on past" advice sounds good, but it doesn't help the hapless visitor who encounters a self appointed gatekeeper or a chronic derailer and isn't privy to the fact they are about enter the Inga Zone or be run over by the Ritmo Rail.
Individuals who serve as gatekeepers reflect either the owner's permission or the owner's negligence.
Hey Titus! Every now and then amid our disagreement, we're in agreement. I left a fab story for you over in the Hey...I'll have what he's having thread!
My blog is MeadHouse's Jon Snow.
Titus is a one trick pony. I hardly read him anymore.
Individuals who serve as gatekeepers reflect either the owner's permission or the owner's negligence.
Althouse doesn't care about the quality of discourse or anyone's feelings. She's beyond permission or negligence. She only wants you in her vortex.
Some have lashed themselves to their masts. Others have stopped their ears and blindfolded their eyes.
Still others, such as myself, have well-tuned lyres and can outsing any second-rate Siren.
A few have made it through. Not being tied up, I even managed to throw a few pies. You know how Harpies dislike getting muck on their feathers.
And at least one of us finally made it to rocky Ithaca.
Prospie weekend, TT?
@Tim: I once sketched the vortex here. I caught sight of it in dream or hungover stupor.
I envisioned the vortex as a septapus or squid. It's hard to see it in the sketch I linked, but each tentacle is festooned with a different sucker. Some are red, some are green, some are blue. These represent political persuasions. Some individual suckers have recognizable symbols, like L, G, B, T, the dollar sign ($), the star of David, the cross, the crescent; some are corporate logos (the Audi symbol, for example), the peace sign, etc.
All the aforementioned suckers on the tentacle represent repulsive or attractive features of the vortex. They are what readers and commenters react to: what draws them or repulses them. They are also what Althouse deploys to push and pull opinions.
Chip: Going. No suitors to slay, only final transcripts and dredging up the dough.
chickelit: That's good! Personally, I'm not original, so to keep up the Greek theme, I'll have to settle for this as how Althouse views herself, her vortex, and her commenters.
I'll leave it to others to show how things really are.
Two Distinct Inking Behaviors!
Two distinct behaviours have been observed in inking cephalopods. The first is the release of large amounts of ink into the water by the cephalopod, in order to create a dark, diffuse cloud which can obscure the predator's view, allowing the cephalopod to make a rapid retreat by jetting away.
The second response to a predator is to release pseudomorphs ("false bodies"); smaller clouds of ink with a greater mucus content, which allows them to hold their shape for longer. These are expelled slightly away from the cephalopod in question, which will often release several pseudomorphs and change colour (blanch) in conjunction with these releases. The pseudomorphs are roughly the same volume and look similar to the cephalopod that released them, and many predators have been observed attacking them mistakenly, allowing the cephalopod to escape (this behaviour is often referred to as the "blanch-ink-jet manoeuvre").
Clouding and the Blanch-Ink-Jet-Manoeuvre about cover it.
Tim: that painting somehow also reminds me of Jack and Rose parting ways in the sea in James Cameron's "Titanic."
@MamaM: Nice annalogy!
I imagine your southern gentlemanly voice as thoroughly charming, Sixty.
I picture 60 as Bo Crowder.
I was thinking more like my daddy, Arlo.
I'm thinking ol'Elmore himself might be the match.
@MamaM: I used your intellectual property without asking permission. I am sorry.
I hope you're flattered, though.
MamaM said...
I'm thinking ol'Elmore himself might be the match.
Plausible, but fuels speculation that sixty is really Troop.
Plus sixty pretty much hates the show. What kind of author hates his cash cow, especially since some of the episodes have been very well crafted?
Those boots were made for walking!
Any surprise that leads to laughter is good with me!
I was over in the Holler, and saw Chips' reference to El Pollo Raylan before the accompanying avatar, so it was two-for-one fun with Chick-in-Boots, on a quest for justice in a place where heaping helpings of hospitality are randomly dished!
Plus sixty pretty much hates the show.
Say it isn't so! Well then, it's back to Arlo with a touch of Boyd.
Oops, Bo not Boyd. Save the quick but devious mind and coal black but committed heart of Boyd for ChipS.
Damn right, MamaM!
Save Eva for me, too, if you don't object none.
But regarding Sixty, I can easily see Bo whipping a chainsaw around w/ease, and carving what he felled into objects of commerce and perhaps art--if he wanted to.
Arlo, OTOH, is just a sorry excuse for a human, IMO. That ain't 60 no how.
Yeah. Sixty=Arlo? Nopes.
Dang it. I miss the show so much. Too long in between seasons. What will become of Ava??
Well...The crotchety part works...plus the hard head and ability to keep on keeping on. I went for Elmore because of the quirky humor and the stories, but El Pollo has him reserved for TY.
ChipS, you and Ava would indeed be a pair. She's what my mama would call, "a run for your money".
Your mama has a way w/words, MamaM.
I saw something nasty in the woodshed.
Me too, plus the smell of something foul. Sort of like the Dahmer story Zemo recounted, with a shed full of decapitated puppet heads and overflowing buckets of effluence. And rising out of the reekage, a spectre wafting about claiming the rights of the full bodied while singing another round of the Song that Never Ends.
This is the song that never ends, yes it goes on and on my friend. Some people started singing it, not knowing what it was, and they'll continue singing it forever just because...This is the song that never ends, yes it goes on and on my friend...
Too bad the female voice isn't your strong suit, because I'm imagining the list of socks paired with Johnny Cash's version of "I've Been Everywhere Man"!
El Pollo Raylan, your aim and accuracy when firing from the hip is cause for awe!
(Long comment to follow: Part #1 of 2 - But knowing me, what would you expect ;-))
Long time, no comment.
Sorry to hear about how things went with Inga. I've had my own run-ins, but we remain friendly.
It is interesting reading the comments here.
First things first: Trooper is right we've spoken on the phone and I won't disagree with his assessment re: fools. Perhaps that's my downfall and why I appreciate his ability to make the humor playful, the insights catholic and the castigation fair and sometimes unbiased. I respect that. I am sorry that I am not always as light-hearted in my joking and banter as would suit Chickie's tastes, but I guess we all have our shortcomings. Again, it's one of the things I always liked about this place. But I do try to be ok with getting as good as I'd give. That's only fair.
Re: darcy - I misread her at first, a long time ago, and have tried to make amends since. She's a nice gal. Chickie has a long memory. Freeman I never had a problem with. DBQ I like much more over time. Doesn't mean we always agree but she's honorable to point out when we do and when we don't. vb seems like a spritely spirit but I've just thought some of the things she has said might have been unwittingly offensive at times, and I didn't mean to offend by pointing that out. Again, sometimes I make my points more strongly than I should. wyo I thought I achieved a nice detente with at long last. And I've always respected synova. Trooper's hitting on something but I've not always been unlucky in love. I just grew up with a mom who suffered fools no less gladly than Trooper or me, and as a result I was never taught that girls need to be treated with kid gloves when it comes to debate. It's ok if youz guys see it differently, though. TT, I've had good luck in life and bad - probably to a normal degree. Perhaps I get passionate about correcting the bad and I suppose that's my shortcoming and burden to deal with in life. But please do not cry for me, Argentina. Just another lost soul swimming in this fishbowl... like most of us are -- good camaraderie excepted.
Anyway, what mama sez is interesting but of course I never had an "agenda" as such. It's just that thoughtlessness or unfairness bothers me and when a bunch of snickering happens over it, over in a place where one-sidedness is as unwitting as it is a fact of life - largely courtesy of Yoko's courtesan (as Trooper notes), I pounced. So, of course... why not rip it with those doing the ripping, but from the reverse angle? What's the worst that could come of it? Well, that depends on how well you play the piper's tune. So perhaps Trooper's right about Yoko's wife's cosseting (sp?), even if, for the record, I never felt I was in anywhere as close to being in her good graces as a few others. I suppose to her I was just a character in an act for her, even if I never thought of myself that way. Maybe I was being manipulated without knowing it.
(Part 2 of 2: Same song second verse. Could get better, hope it doesn't get worse.)
All that said, it looks like I'll be taking a leave from there that may be more or less permanent. Oh well. If they want to censor, do it fairly... But you guys know all this by now. They violated their own "policy" by leaving one-sided comments that quote, while taking advantage of the "disappearance" of the original statement in full context. That's some cowardly shit, IMO. If I may say so.
But all that said, I'm here. Don't know if I'll be around for long - as my past propensity to offend in other places makes me sheepish and willing to do my best to avoid that here. But at least you can say that Trooper's food pics show a MUCH better sense of taste than, well, a certain someone else's. I guess that's how it goes, and maybe what this all comes down to: A sense of taste.
I'm also sure that IRL Troop and I would get along pretty well. And prolly Chickie too. And prolly a bunch of others. No biggie, life is what it is. TT knows. The internets exaggerate and warp and divide - even tho Trooper knows that, here at least, they need not. Enjoy what you can. Misunderstandings will happen, and we'll all get a bit too passionate for our own good. Just try to avoid being a douche as much as possible and maybe some good things might happen. And I'm saying this as much for my own good as for just general advice.
Cheers -
Your humble servant.
(And Chickie, I really do feel bad that we don't always get each others' humor. But I yam what I yam. And I can always learn. It's good seeing all y'all's perspective tho -- once again. At long, long last). Much appreciated.
I, for one, welcome our new rhythmic ball buster.
If I may chip in my 2¢, it seems to me that the opening gambit is v. important in setting the subsequent tone. I usually try not to be snarky or rough on the first pass, and after that simply reply in kind. Sometimes, tho, I too readily let the irresistible cheap joke gets in the way of decency. But hey, whaddayagonnado?
They call it the Tit for Tat strategy in game theory.
Sadly, I've never found a steady supply of Tat to be used in barter.
Not to speak for Trooper, but I think he generally goes along with the sign on the old saloon that said, "We welcome all Nations but 'Carrie,'"
Who plays that role depends, I suppose, on who has an axe to grind.
...or who has an axe wound to grind. But those types are more often welcomed and lapped up by customers.
@Ritmo: I have an unexpunged version of that 800+ comment thread. I generally subscribe to threads after leaving a first comment by checking the little box (thank you (rcommal). Not saying it's worth a read but just in case you wanted to argue anything.
I think that in a bar, we'd mostly all get along. People would probably also not appear to be like their internet persona either.
I'm actually more disagreeable in person.
Hey Chickie - Thanks for the offer. But if I may, I think I'll pass - at least certainly for now. I'll try my best to use this opportunity to turn a new leaf. And why not? There's more to it, as you all know, and we all only get so much time on this rock... And seeing the way you guys hold it together shows me that there's always more to learn. Why waste it fighting? I'm getting too mature to rely on that kind of invigoration? And being censored was humbling. It was entirely their right to do it though, so why get upset? Should I have expected anything less?
I think the most rewarding thing was, at the end of it, stressing the importance of manners, and how much more my ardent "challengers" would have gotten out of me, or any of their "hoped-for" ideological "lurkers" had they tried that. It was so obvious... What wasn't to get? Rudeness drove away decent discussion of both a political and normal sort, so they got what they gave. Tant pis.
I agree Chickie that we'd all get along even better IRL. And I'll try to make it over to your shop more, too, Chip.
In the spirit of what is becoming my very own version of titus' sign-off...
Cheers
this all comes down to: A sense of taste.
Yes, it does. Aversive or appetitive is the question.
The internets exaggerate and warp and divide
The internets are a tool, reflecting the person using them. They don't exaggerate, warp or divide on their own, the intellects of the humans using them contribute to and accomplish those outcomes.
Maybe so, MamaM. But as with context, forum is everything.
I won't let Trooper down and let you know that I was hip to EBL's game before many. I just thought I could beat her at it.
And her (or hubby Yoko's) extensive, one-way censorship - as obvious punishment without any pretense of moderation - now convince me that I have.
@MamaM: Weren't you telling us a while back about "discordia" in the context of Inga? It may have been over a year ago.
Look who's posting today about Eris whose Latin name is Discordia.
Yes, it started with a prompt from ChipS, another of his bouquet garnis dropped into the TY soup. I don't recall if it was the word or a different reference that led to the wiki look up and some good fun with discordianism until Johnny One Moo got ahold of it and projected it to death.
Poor Johnny one-note
sang out with "gusto"
And just overlorded the place
Poor Johnny one-note
yelled willy nilly
Until he was bleu in the face
For holding one note was his ace
Couldn’t hear the brass
Couldn’t hear the drum
He was in a class
By himself, by gum!
For whatever the hostess over at TOP is or isn't, and whatever her shortfalls may be, she has moments that make me smile.
“To diverse gods do mortals bow; Holy Cow, and Wholly Chao.”
I once chided Althouse about having holy cows and litmus tests and she challenged me to name them: link
I thought about doing so but decided instead to enable her to put them display over time.
I just thought I could beat her at it.
That sounds like agenda to me, bringing the question of motive:
What for? To what avail?
From EBL, at the comment Raylan linked to:
Let's see you take some risk by stating what these things are. Be specific, so what you say can be falsifiable. Otherwise your comment is drivel.
This. This. fuckin. shit. is everything that's wrong w/ her in a nutshell.
She loves to dish it hard. But give it back to her in return, and you're asked why you're being so sarcastic and insulting.
I simply don't understand why the proprietrix of a blog that lives 100% off its comments would treat a long-time, good-faith, witty commenter like El Pollo Nuestro like that.
But fuckit. I started drinking some srsly strong margaritas early tonight and am already pretty hammered. So...wheeeee!!!!
Chip: It's after 6 PST and time to gin up my tonic.
Go for it, Raylan.
I even won the happy hour giveaway. Tonight's shaping up pretty well if I can just stop posting.
...and she challenged me to name them...I thought about doing so...
Periodically posting a "Whose Sacred Cow" thread would be the risky thing to do, where commenters could gather to specifically state what some of those things are, so the falsifiable and drivel could be ascertained and swept away, leaving the rest to glow like beacons in the dark.
I'd be able and willing to tell her specific (and "falsifiable," a faux-sciency cant word) things, but then she'd say they were in "bad faith," etc. Ah, the human vomedy.
Anyway, what Chip said, comment before last.
I decided that I'm going to reside here in this thread for the time being. It has nothing to do with Troop or avoiding his newer posts (which I'd be gladly mixing into normally). It's just that I can't advance to later threads for reasons which I can't reveal but promise to disclose in a week.
I won't let Trooper down and let you know that I was hip to EBL's game before many.
Well, many have suspected that something was up over there for years, haven't they? I believe there is a conspiracy (I should chirbit my inner W.S. Burroughs saying that) but I've always held back on pronouncing theories because--well that's just the way I see this one. There two ways to prove hypotheses: one is to boldly assert something and then look for facts to support it; the other is to amass facts until the conclusion is all but self-evident. There's probably a range between those two extrema.
On the other hand, I've gotten to know a few people associated with TOP: spoken to few on the phone, written to a few, even met a few--including Meade and Althouse. I value those interactions. I don't think I'd write or say something about any of those people that I wouldn't say face-to-face. That's just a ground rule for me. If I violate that, please call me on it.
"I just thought I could beat her at it."
That sounds like agenda to me, bringing the question of motive:
What for? To what avail?
I like challenges, I guess.
I guess what's confusing me is what you mean by "agenda". Is that a bad thing? Does it mean that there was plotting involved? No. And no. At least not terribly consciously. And isn't that what you liked (and still like) about her? At most I'd get kernels, or "germs" (if you like that context!) of an idea. Much like her own. But only in immediate response to something I'd just seen there. It's what made what I did so reactive, and also what made it seem a bit unhinged, and even to I'm sure many, a bit evil.
In any event, if someone's kicking a ball around off the side of a building you live in, I don't think you'd call it an agenda to steal the ball and kick it back. Or bounce it off the same building in a different way. And away from them...
It's possible we might not see eye-to-eye on this. Maybe it's a guy thing... or at least a competitive thing. In any event, my avail was that of appealing to my own motivation, of attacking or quashing thoughtlessness. It's fine that she's spontaneous, that's the good part. The artistic part. But allowing it to take over any thoughtful challenges at all, or any appeals to what she thought beneath her to consider, was and is the evil part. It was all about appearances, ultimately. And I don't like that.
I didn't know how destructive I was being, because I underestimated the degree to which ideological sympathy and one-sided expectations of civility would have no choice but to prevail in the end.
Now I do.
The last fight (and the last straw) was with guys lamenting, in a pretty rude way, the lack of thoughtful ideological challenge. When I asked what they were doing to invite it - i.e. perhaps trying to be polite, thoughtful and open-minded - they basically told me to fuck off.
That, and the one-sided comment purging campaign that surrounded it, told me that any true purpose for being there (not as detailed as an "agenda") or enjoyment that I could have had, had come to an end. I can have fun in a lot of ways. But there was just going to be no meeting of the minds. Among some there (like Chip, St. Croix or Synova), yes. But the overall dynamic was too controlled and political (if subtle) for anything positive to take charge. All the positivity and free-form stuff was a show. At the end of the day, the bloggress's agenda won, as is her prerogative. Not fairly, though, which I had held out much hope, perhaps vaingloriously, might not have been her prerogative.
You seem really interested in why I did what I did. Perhaps I never explored the answer to that all that well myself. But Trooper's explanation is the best that I can find. In any event, visceral things have their own motivation. I succumb that I often didn't attack what I perceived to be thoughtlessness in the most thoughtful way, as open as I was to being challenged to doing so. But now I'm pretty sure that too few people there (and most importantly, the proprietors) ever cared to.
Whether that answers your question or not, it's as close to an accurate telling of the truth that I think I can offer for the sake of mollifying your puzzlement.
Well, many have suspected that something was up over there for years, haven't they? I believe there is a conspiracy (I should chirbit my inner W.S. Burroughs saying that) but I've always held back on pronouncing theories because--well that's just the way I see this one.
I think you're just going to have to accept that some conspiracies are just subconscious. Or unconscious.
In either event, they're just thoughtless.
On the other hand, I've gotten to know a few people associated with TOP: spoken to few on the phone, written to a few, even met a few--including Meade and Althouse. I value those interactions. I don't think I'd write or say something about any of those people that I wouldn't say face-to-face. That's just a ground rule for me. If I violate that, please call me on it.
Meade reached out to me on my blog once, and it gave me the impression that he really was a nice guy. (Not that he'd ever said enough to give me the opposite impression).
But when he reached out to me on my blog, it was to encourage an open-minded, bipartisan overture that I'd made.
So obviously I had every reason, from that point forward, to think that if he'd ever failed to do the same on the wife's blog, that he'd have no problem if I called him out on it either.
He's a very awww shucks kind of a guy. Witty with language, (as you like and even I found amusing from time to time), but not the deeper things. The things that inoculate against charges of hypocrisy. I don't know that that's entirely his fault. At the risk of sounding snobby, it's probably just not in him.
But I never thought he was a bad guy. Just a guy who occasionally followed the strengths of others to ends that were a bit less than noble. Or at least less noble than he could have been.
Hey - opposites attract.
I won't let Trooper down and let you know that I was hip to EBL's game before many.
I define "conspiracy" as a game involving more than one person.
She loves to dish it hard. But give it back to her in return, and you're asked why you're being so sarcastic and insulting.
I simply don't understand why the proprietrix of a blog that lives 100% off its comments would treat a long-time, good-faith, witty commenter like El Pollo Nuestro like that.
At the risk of playing armchair psychiatrist, I think it's called narcissism.
Which, was the other time Meade took to engaging me on my blog - in response to a post about said topic.
Interestingly, it was to offer words of caution, as well as a telling how can you really know it's not you? sort of challenge.
He backed that challenge up by linking to information from his source at www.thefrisky.com.
I thought that move was funny, even if he didn't realize why. But at the moment, I kind of gave the more, mouth agape, seriously? reaction.
I define "conspiracy" as a game involving more than one person.
I'm sure that if you want to get technical about it, a lot of game theory scenarios might very well apply to unconscious social behavior.
Yes, usually "conspiracy" is a term applied to conscious, intensively plotted out acts. And I don't put characters associated with those we're discussing above that.
But then, most of them are just thoughtless enough for certain ways of "ganging up" to be as natural and automatic to them as breathing. Or snoring.
Not to speak for Trooper, but I think he generally goes along with the sign on the old saloon that said, "We welcome all Nations but 'Carrie,'"
Trooper's got way too much heart and soul for me to ever be at risk of feeling tempted to go full metal jacket schoolmarm on him. Or even just plain schoolmarm.
We might have beaten around the bushes in the past on topics that came close. But again, he's just got too much of a handle on the human factor. Those things appeal to us and pre-empt what might otherwise be a good fracas.
I think he's got it right; we're both just feistily arrogant wiseasses. But we've got a lot of other sides, as well. Obviously, the example Trooper sets is good for me, in that regard. I probably would have come to realize the way EBL's limitations were limiting me, sooner or later. And grown up. But an external catalyst is always good.
Reading what he wrote in the post, it's like he has ESP or something.
Someone as potentially sharp in his vituperation as this SOB could use a mentor in the ways of mellowing that. ;-)
In any event, if someone's kicking a ball around off the side of a building you live in, I don't think you'd call it an agenda to steal the ball and kick it back. Or bounce it off the same building in a different way. And away from them...
Now that's an odd story. Not sure why someone would be kicking a ball around off the side of a building you live in to start with... but apparently potato gun shooters in a Montana park are another story, close to an urban legend, causing citizens to become... concerned... and vindictive...
The Bad Potato Chums and the Mysterious Case of the Space Invaders!
As the cable guy says: "I don't care who you are, that's pretty funny right there now."
Oops...the link doesn't work.
Bad Potato!
The WH press room evacuated for smoke is funny stuff too. Maybe it's backwards day.
MamaM, heh.
Has anyone remarked on how appropriate it is that this administration's mouthpiece is a carnie?
That WH incident was probably just a smokescreen for something larger.
@Rhythm
We're cool. In fairness, you probably misread me way back then because I think I was trying to be a tough chick. I'm not a tough chick. I am so soft I annoy myself. :)
Anyway, I like the "you" that did the writing in this thread.
Group hug, guys? (Hehehe...)
And Mr. Raylan, I must say that with one exception, everyone I've met in IRL from the internets has been very close to what I expected. Very much like their online persona, and well worth saying hello to in person. :)
I'm pretty much done for a while trying to contribute anything to the Althouse blog. I have only satire left to give. Here, for example, is my rendering of edutcher and cedarford's exchange today on French cheeses as Mr Ed and WS Burroughs: chirbit link.
Their original lines can be found here.
Funny audio, chickelit! You're getting close with Cedarford, but he's still managing to sound a little too sane underneath it all. Don't feel bad. Even Jack Nicholson never managed to be a totally convincing nutcase, IMHO.
Darcy: Having missed chickelit on two occasions when he was in Boston, and it would have been easy to meet him, were I not sick and/or exhausted, I despair of ever meeting you IRL. I also missed Randy (may he rest in peace) when he came to Beantown on a New England tour. You may remember him from TOP. He had been hanging around Ambiance, post-Althouse, and that is where I had a lot of interaction with him. I had some weird flu when he visited, and, as a result, I'll never see him this side of the Pearly Gates (which is, of course, assuming a lot about both of us).
Anyway, if anyone wants to get a dose of me IRL, here are two videos of me saying as little technically as possible about making piccolos, while attempting to charm customers who wouldn't understand anyway. The background noise is terrible. There is an exhaust system and three machining centers going full-blast just outside my shop door. The Sales Manager stuck her head in one day, and said, "Hey, Tim, say something about making piccolo headjoints!" And I said, "Uh...okay." Here is the result in two videos:
http://youtu.be/cQ0NYTWzvnI
http://youtu.be/F67ypQP2RS0
Tim, that was so cool! Nice to see you and hear you. :)
I happen to have a very good friend in Boston and I have been meaning to get there so it could happen!
I don't know if it's still there but Bruce had a short audio of me "singing" a little while ago on his chirbit.
And I missed randy as well. He was here with his mom and I was unable to meet up with him. I so regret that.
I don't know if it's still there but Bruce had a short audio of me "singing" a little while ago on his chirbit
Why you gotta be so mean?
I met Randy (Internet Ronin) at an Oceanside in 2009 at a downtown cafe. He was keenly interested in all things Althousian but was a bit jaded at that point. He had spent a part of his youth in San Diego County and knew "old" Oceanside better than I did.
Get a room, you two.
A sound room, I mean. Darcy needs an audition reel.
When Randy died (I heard about it on Annie's blog) I emailed Ann and Meade. Nary a word in return nor a mention anywhere that I saw. And yet today this:
Goodbye to Taylor Mead. Real tears shed for you here at Meadhouse.
You see, only abstraction matters over there. Real life people? Not so much.
Darcy, Good pipes! You have an excellent sense of pitch and a very nice quality. Have you taken voice lessons? If you haven't, you should.
Even though I'm in the music business, I wouldn't have known much about singing, at least technically, until we somehow managed to raise a tenor. His years in a choir school, and voice lessons since, have taught ME a thing or two, and from what I hear, you should definitely keep it up. Chip's right about the audition tape.
You guys are kind. Thank you. I've had no lessons. I'm too shy to sing anywhere but my shower and my car! :)
And El Pollo, what you wrote about the Althouse blog never acknowledging losing a member of their commenting community, but shedding real tears over a public figure really gave me pause. I wonder why they didn't post a short note about Randy? I mean, he surely mattered much more than the Purchase of the Day.
Darcy, You are absolutely right about Althouse and her commenting community. I know Randy wasn't particularly active there for some time, but he was well-known and liked by a lot of people. Why not acknowledge his passing? I frankly was surprised he wasn't more mentioned on Ambiance, where he had been hanging out for a while. I had to surmise his death by hints.
That's the thing about the internet. It's a mirror, and it shows us as we can be, rolling along, highly concerned with ourselves, not even noticing the bell, much less asking for whom it might toll.
And that's the thing about Althouse. She is totally self-involved, convinced of her own superiority, mostly regarding her commenters with undisguised contempt. They exist only to pump her numbers up and prove how successful she has been in becoming at least slightly famous.
Bullying a real 13-year-old, while becoming irate because of an image of a teenager on YouTube? No problem. The video's good for controversy. The kid? Who cares? A popular commenter dies of a nasty cancer? So? There's plenty more where he came from.
Suckerrs!
In mourning TM, she was mourning the loss of her youth. Not him per se.
(I initially typed his last name, but that looked too weird.)
@TT: I learned about Randy's death through Ambiance. I think even Annie was in the dark for a long time.
@Chip S.: OK, that's another way of looking at it.
A couple of comments here about how poorly commenters are treated at TOP, and the next day there's a Festival of the Commenters thread over there.
Fascinating.
Chip S, heh.
With a chunk of El Pollo's Satirical Cheeze on the plate for the festuvities.
Will a palette clearing chirbit be next?
The ones with the horse laughs are a guaranteed laugh at this house, although its getting harder to pick a favorite.
For MamaM, on Mothers Day
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