Hi everyone? How are you? How was your day? Mine was super, thanks for asking.
I was strategic yet tactical and operational, time sensitive, collobarative, action oriented and incredibly organized in having the bandwith to multi task.
I negotiated and closed 4 Senior International positions encompassing many back and forth during dindin and lunch with details regarding base, bonus, stock, sign on, relo, temp housing, child care, real estate contacts, work life balance, and even child care accomies.
They all had competing offers and all accepted after I dazzled them with bullshit-a saying my father used to say.
One of them made a comment to me about being as independent as a hog on ice-never heard that one before. It means being so independent as to being awkward. Which is good because they are going to be shipping off to the Congo alone.
It is so important in HR and really in any function in business in 2013 to be engaged in the "international space".
Sometimes a woman resemblea a praying mantis...as in this picture. A praying mantis with tits, that is.
I have to ask a stupid question. There's corn for sale in my supermarket...in April! Is it California corn? Do they grow it year round out there? My ignorance is colossal.
Many of those Hindus are creating many companies and jobs and wealth in this country though. The hindus that are here are educated-not like the spics that are here.
And those hindis are big time givers.
For example those hindus, who are temporary workers, pay into social security (for our oldie takers) but will never get that money back.
Hi Titus. I'm dazzled by your ability to function as an Action Oriented, Strategic, Sensitive to Time, Highly collaborative, Operational, Loafless yet organized, and Exceptionally Tactical Human Resource.
Wideband or narrow, when it comes to the heights and breath of life, this international truth remains: We're workin' our jobs, collect our pay Believe we're gliding down the highway, when in fact we're slip sliding away
There's corn for sale in my supermarket...in April! Is it California corn?
Closer than that. In fact, if you are looking for a way to get your mind off your gutters, there's some fun to be had at Yesteryear Village at the South Florida Fairgrounds, where a Corn Fiesta complete with corn shuckin' and an "old fashioned bathing suit contest" takes place April 28.
Right now, sweet corn is at the peak of its season. Surprising to many Floridians, the state grows more sweet corn than any other state in the Union, and Palm Beach County leads the way.
For northerners, sweet corn used to be a sign of summer, but in Florida, it has always been a crop for the fall, winter and spring. Once winter passes, the harvest moves from Homestead to the region just south of Lake Okeechobee. Despite the freezes in January and February that delayed many harvests, normal volumes are starting to return and growers will be shipping their bountiful harvest throughout Florida as well as states in the East and Midwest.
Meanwhile, looking for uplifting content to prove my Choir School bona fides on Facebook, now that I am followed by more and more parents of my young charges, and so must demonstrate I am worthy to instruct their children, I came up with this:
Music for Mass during the Renaissance, if composed as a complete set of Mass sections, usually had a "cantus prius factus" as its basis. These were originally appropriate Gregorian chant melodies. Pretty soon in the 15th century they started using pop tunes, some of which were pretty raunchy. So you get things like, "Missa se la face ay pale," (Mass on "Your Face is so Pale with Love"), or "Missa sur le marche d'Arras" (Mass on "Above the Market of Arras a Spaniard said, There's Money in it for you Girl").
In the case here, it's an English tune of the same era, "Westron Wynde." The words are as follows:
"Westron wynde, when wilt thou blow, The small raine down can raine. Cryst, if my love were in my armes And I in my bedde again!"
A fine melody to include in the Mass. The choristers were all having grand fun nudging each other at the naughty bits in the Agnus Dei, while the schlub peasants on their knees on the stone floor had no idea what was going on, except they had to kneel through all that damned music again.
Martin Luther was a fine musician, who sang and played the recorder quite well. He knew all this crap was going on, but didn't want to dump church music entirely like some of his fellow Reformers. ("Why should the Devil have all the best tunes?") So he cleaned up everything and let the congregation sing, just as they had done back in the days of Charlemagne.
Eventually, the Catholics tumbled to the same idea, and here we are today. It's a shame the usual music in St. Suburbia is crap again, but at least nowadays it's squeaky-clean crap.
These were originally appropriate Gregorian chant melodies. Pretty soon in the 15th century they started using pop tunes, some of which were pretty raunchy.
What was going on that led or prompted them to start using these pop tunes?
I hate to be a terrible stuffed shirt, but those who like the Tridentine ('Latin") Mass, ought to like the music that was proscribed to go with it, namely Gregorian chant and post-Tridentine Renaissance polyphony ("stile antico" in Italian), specifically that of Palestrina. The Council of Trent set the parameters, if you will, and they were reaffirmed by Pius X's famous motu propio of 1903, Tra le sollecitudini. Even Verdi was too much for Pio Decimo. I expect his head would have exploded at Dave Brubeck.
Now, I'm not a Rad Trad (if you're into Catholic politics, you know what that means), so I'm not railing at Jews and Popes since Pius IX. But I do teach at the only Catholic full-time boys' choir school in North America, and what we're up to is a mix of Gregorian Chant, Renaissance polyphony, later Classical music (Mozart, Schubert, etc.), and more recent 20th (and maybe 21st) century pieces appropriate for Liturgical and other uses in a church. It's a pretty conservative repertoire for two reasons: 1) People who go to church, even in liberal Harvard Square, do NOT want to hear Dave Brubeck; and, 2) It all has to work in the actual daily Liturgy. The boys (and men on Sundays and special occasions) are singing Masses and Vespers all the time, not to mention concerts, run-outs to other churches, weddings, funerals, concerts, etc., and, believe me, Dave Brubeck would cause more than Pius X's head to explode. In short, everyone involved wants Church music to sound like Church music.
In my opinion (and it's only my taste), John Coltrane did the best fusion of jazz and spiritual (NOT "spiritual," as in Southern Christian) music in his "A Love Supreme.". It's only with his quartet, and so is a personal statement, not overwrought with a choir, etc.. like he's trying to be a post-groovy Handel.
But WHAT a personal statement. Listen to the linked album. The whole thing. Then maybe go listen to some Palestrina. Much shorter because it was part of Mass. But neither of them are too shabby, IMHO, spirit- or music-wise.
Here is a video of the Choir of St Paul's singing Si Iniquitates as an introit. This was recorded in the junk-filled old organ loft at the beginning of an actual Mass. This is the real thing, folks. The text is:
Si iniquitates observaveris Domine: Domine quis sustinebit. Quia apud te propitiatio est: De profundis clamavi ad te Domine: Domine exaudi vocem meam.
If thou shalt mark iniquities, O Lord, Lord, who shall stand? For with thee is propitiation, O God of Israel. From the depths I have cried to thee, O Lord: Lord, hear my voice.
BTW, the Mass that is commonly celebrated today ("Novus ordo") is almost always in the vernacular (English, Spanish, Polish, etc.), but the original Vatican II documents had it first in Latin. So it is entirely permissible to celebrate the Novus ordo Mass in Latin. The Introit in my last comment was used, like all the Introits at St Paul's these days, for a Novus ordo Mass partly sung in Latin (and Greek for the Kyrie). At that very Mass, I found myself standing there, as I often do, chanting the Credo in Latin, something I haven't done since the days of Sister Helen and Holy Rosary Academy. So, if you miss Latin, ask your Priest to get his act together and celebrate a "normal" Mass sometime at least partly in Latin. That's assuming, of course, he knows a word of that language.
I'm going to a Tridentine (yes, "Latin") Mass on the 28th at St Paul's. The choir and everyone else are sweating bullets trying to get THAT together. It's going to be the full Gold, smells & bells routine, complete with a boy choir singing Palestrina (or maybe Victoria). I'm sure some Rad Trads could pick holes in it, if they wanted, so I kind of wish Simon was there to act as an official critic to prepare us for the inevitable snark.
In case you wonder who Simon is, all you need do is consult your Disgruntled Althouse Commenter Directory under "Conservatives who should have known better." I'm under "Moderate conservatives who should have had their heads examined."
Please forgive the typos, repeated words, inconsistent italics, etc. in the above. It is late. It is a blog comment. And it only gets ONE editing run-through.
Excellent, Michael. If your Priests are still chanting (and can stay on pitch), they're doing better than 90% of the Priests I know!
Actually, the PDFs from the Liber Usualis for each week on that site are very helpful. During Lent, especially, the choir chants a lot and avoids polyphonic music. Having the music already extracted from the Liber Usualis could save some digging through dog-eared copies for those of us who like to follow along.
The new Music Director has gone to printing the Psalms in Chant notation in the worship aids, although they're perfectly well written-out in modern notation in the old hymnals the School had printed long ago and are still in the pews. Most of the congregation has given up trying to puzzle out Chant notation, and just follows along by ear.
But once you can read Chant notation, it opens new possibilities to acquaint yourself with a very old musical tradition. So, good on your Priests, Michael. I'm going to poke around that site some more. Thanks!
Ah, Michael, I've done a little more research, and it dawns on me your crew, "Institute of Christ the King Sovereign Priest," is the one a local Priest I know said were, "the next best thing to heretics," and "parasites on the Church." Another Priest I know of quite conservative temperament was more sympathetic, but he also felt your guys were flirting with heresy. He made the point they're Secular Canons, and not proper Diocesan Priests, nor do they belong to a properly-constituted Order. They seem to be floating out there in the Never-Never Land of the Catholic Right.
The Choir School where I teach uses what might be viewed as a very conservative Liturgy, but it is definitely Novus Ordo, and the Choir School and its practices are firmly embedded within the Archdiocese of Boston. The Priests, with the exception of the charming and brilliant guy who is the Harvard Graduate Chaplain, are regular Diocesan Priests. The Cardinal pays us regular visits, as do other visiting Bishops and Archbishops when in Boston. We're the "gem of the Archdiocese," and Archbishops of Boston have been proud to show us off for 50 years now.
St Paul's occasionally celebrate a Tridentine Mass, as I mentioned, but it's not a regular occurrence. Tridentine Masses replace Novus Ordo Masses on a regular basis only at one church in Newton in the Boston Archdiocese, if I'm not mistaken.
All these Culture Wars over Liturgy leave me cold, as they do the Pastor of St Paul's and a number of other Priests and a Nun I know. Those of us who think this way are happy with Liturgical flexibility. After all, the Church says it will listen more to the Laity, and a good portion of the Laity, both in this country and in Europe—especially Germany—say they would like the Tridentine Mass as an option.
I have found that preferring the old forms can have almost nothing to do with personal politics. I know Clergy who are, politically, on the Looney Left, but who prefer a Liturgical "high Church," including an option for the Tridentine Mass. And I know several fairly conservative Priests who regard the whole Tridentine thing with great suspicion, despite Benedict's championing it, and who think, as I said, that advocates of the Extraordinary Form (as the Tridentine Mass is known) are flirting with Heresy and ought not to be tolerated.
But politics are politics. It's just too bad so many modern versions thereof have to be so unconnected with reality, whether secular or spiritual.
Tim - Heretics? No. The Institute was founded with Papal permission and serve in various locations only after being given permission by the local Archbishop to do so.
Our Archbishop, a notoriously conservative guy, stops by for Confirmation and loans a diocesian priest when an extra hand is needed.
Michael, That's good. The Catholic Church has a big tent, and I'm glad your Archbishop has welcomed this group. I think they're an important alternative, and, frankly, I wish some Diocesan Priests had their training.
But I know quite a few Clergy, and opinion is pretty divided. Guys our age, who came up immediately after Vatican II, and who tend to be liberal politically, are generally irate to one degree or another. Younger Priests and one young Nun I know, seem fine with the Extraordinary Form and a general revival of traditional Church discipline. They weren't part of its overthrow, but have been living with its aftermath. Vatican II can't be undone, and shouldn't be undone (denying its legitimacy is where the heresy comes in), but making adjustments to accommodate people who, in fact, want more of the Church in their lives seems to a lot of younger Clergy as a sensible thing. And, of course, there's the whole issue of Memory (I can't remember the Greek word), that the Church regards as important, both theologically and liturgically.
Oh, what a mess. But it always has been. May God continue to bless it.
I hate Sarah Jessica Parker, Robin Williams, Tim Robbins, Susan Saradon, the BJ Hunnicut guy, brussel sprouts, the Boston Red Sox, commies and well, lawyers.
27 comments:
That pic is hilarious!
Have some corn.
tits.
Hi everyone? How are you? How was your day? Mine was super, thanks for asking.
I was strategic yet tactical and operational, time sensitive, collobarative, action oriented and incredibly organized in having the bandwith to multi task.
I negotiated and closed 4 Senior International positions encompassing many back and forth during dindin and lunch with details regarding base, bonus, stock, sign on, relo, temp housing, child care, real estate contacts, work life balance, and even child care accomies.
They all had competing offers and all accepted after I dazzled them with bullshit-a saying my father used to say.
One of them made a comment to me about being as independent as a hog on ice-never heard that one before. It means being so independent as to being awkward. Which is good because they are going to be shipping off to the Congo alone.
It is so important in HR and really in any function in business in 2013 to be engaged in the "international space".
I didn't even have time to pinch a loaf today!
tits.
Sometimes a woman resemblea a praying mantis...as in this picture. A praying mantis with tits, that is.
I have to ask a stupid question. There's corn for sale in my supermarket...in April! Is it California corn? Do they grow it year round out there? My ignorance is colossal.
Hey Titus, are you one of the HRers responsible for flooding this country with Hindus and other alien type creatures?
My company doesn't do sponsorship Ricpic.
Many of those Hindus are creating many companies and jobs and wealth in this country though. The hindus that are here are educated-not like the spics that are here.
And those hindis are big time givers.
For example those hindus, who are temporary workers, pay into social security (for our oldie takers) but will never get that money back.
Where is Mamam?
Love her!!!
No corn here, yet, Ricpic, which doesn't necessarily mean there isn't some somewhere in the state.
Didn't see any on my drive, tho'.
I miss and love Mamam-mamam where are you my catfish?
cucci cucci coo mama doo.
Hi Titus.
I'm dazzled by your ability to function as an
Action Oriented,
Strategic,
Sensitive to Time,
Highly collaborative,
Operational,
Loafless yet organized, and
Exceptionally Tactical Human Resource.
Wideband or narrow, when it comes to the heights and breath of life, this international truth remains:
We're workin' our jobs, collect our pay
Believe we're gliding down the highway,
when in fact we're slip sliding away
There's corn for sale in my supermarket...in April! Is it California corn?
Closer than that. In fact, if you are looking for a way to get your mind off your gutters, there's some fun to be had at Yesteryear Village at the South Florida Fairgrounds, where a Corn Fiesta complete with corn shuckin' and an "old fashioned bathing suit contest" takes place April 28.
Right now, sweet corn is at the peak of its season. Surprising to many Floridians, the state grows more sweet corn than any other state in the Union, and Palm Beach County leads the way.
For northerners, sweet corn used to be a sign of summer, but in Florida, it has always been a crop for the fall, winter and spring. Once winter passes, the harvest moves from Homestead to the region just south of Lake Okeechobee. Despite the freezes in January and February that delayed many harvests, normal volumes are starting to return and growers will be shipping their bountiful harvest throughout Florida as well as states in the East and Midwest.
Meanwhile, looking for uplifting content to prove my Choir School bona fides on Facebook, now that I am followed by more and more parents of my young charges, and so must demonstrate I am worthy to instruct their children, I came up with this:
Christopher Tye (1505-1573) "Western Wynde Mass." The alto part uses the famous old English tune, "Western Wynde."
Music for Mass during the Renaissance, if composed as a complete set of Mass sections, usually had a "cantus prius factus" as its basis. These were originally appropriate Gregorian chant melodies. Pretty soon in the 15th century they started using pop tunes, some of which were pretty raunchy. So you get things like, "Missa se la face ay pale," (Mass on "Your Face is so Pale with Love"), or "Missa sur le marche d'Arras" (Mass on "Above the Market of Arras a Spaniard said, There's Money in it for you Girl").
In the case here, it's an English tune of the same era, "Westron Wynde." The words are as follows:
"Westron wynde, when wilt thou blow,
The small raine down can raine.
Cryst, if my love were in my armes
And I in my bedde again!"
A fine melody to include in the Mass. The choristers were all having grand fun nudging each other at the naughty bits in the Agnus Dei, while the schlub peasants on their knees on the stone floor had no idea what was going on, except they had to kneel through all that damned music again.
Martin Luther was a fine musician, who sang and played the recorder quite well. He knew all this crap was going on, but didn't want to dump church music entirely like some of his fellow Reformers. ("Why should the Devil have all the best tunes?") So he cleaned up everything and let the congregation sing, just as they had done back in the days of Charlemagne.
Eventually, the Catholics tumbled to the same idea, and here we are today. It's a shame the usual music in St. Suburbia is crap again, but at least nowadays it's squeaky-clean crap.
Very nice, Tim. I recall some of that from my school days.
Apparently the Hollywood church does a Latin mass, so I'm thinking about visiting. (The English one does nothing for me.)
These were originally appropriate Gregorian chant melodies. Pretty soon in the 15th century they started using pop tunes, some of which were pretty raunchy.
What was going on that led or prompted them to start using these pop tunes?
Hey Tim - Have you seen the DVD of Dave Brubeck's Mass called Hope! A Celebration?
Here's a sample.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r2FNC66gBJ8
Blake - my former pastor is now at this church in California. Worth the trip.
http://www.institute-christ-king.org/santaclara/
I just drove up the coast last weekend, though I turned inland before Santa Clara. Next time I'll push up through and stop by!
Brubeck was a beast. That was stunning.
Thanks, Michael. That was interesting.
I hate to be a terrible stuffed shirt, but those who like the Tridentine ('Latin") Mass, ought to like the music that was proscribed to go with it, namely Gregorian chant and post-Tridentine Renaissance polyphony ("stile antico" in Italian), specifically that of Palestrina. The Council of Trent set the parameters, if you will, and they were reaffirmed by Pius X's famous motu propio of 1903, Tra le sollecitudini. Even Verdi was too much for Pio Decimo. I expect his head would have exploded at Dave Brubeck.
Now, I'm not a Rad Trad (if you're into Catholic politics, you know what that means), so I'm not railing at Jews and Popes since Pius IX. But I do teach at the only Catholic full-time boys' choir school in North America, and what we're up to is a mix of Gregorian Chant, Renaissance polyphony, later Classical music (Mozart, Schubert, etc.), and more recent 20th (and maybe 21st) century pieces appropriate for Liturgical and other uses in a church. It's a pretty conservative repertoire for two reasons: 1) People who go to church, even in liberal Harvard Square, do NOT want to hear Dave Brubeck; and, 2) It all has to work in the actual daily Liturgy. The boys (and men on Sundays and special occasions) are singing Masses and Vespers all the time, not to mention concerts, run-outs to other churches, weddings, funerals, concerts, etc., and, believe me, Dave Brubeck would cause more than Pius X's head to explode. In short, everyone involved wants Church music to sound like Church music.
In my opinion (and it's only my taste), John Coltrane did the best fusion of jazz and spiritual (NOT "spiritual," as in Southern Christian) music in his "A Love Supreme.". It's only with his quartet, and so is a personal statement, not overwrought with a choir, etc.. like he's trying to be a post-groovy Handel.
But WHAT a personal statement. Listen to the linked album. The whole thing. Then maybe go listen to some Palestrina. Much shorter because it was part of Mass. But neither of them are too shabby, IMHO, spirit- or music-wise.
Here is a video of the Choir of St Paul's singing Si Iniquitates as an introit. This was recorded in the junk-filled old organ loft at the beginning of an actual Mass. This is the real thing, folks. The text is:
Si iniquitates observaveris Domine:
Domine quis sustinebit.
Quia apud te propitiatio est:
De profundis clamavi ad te Domine:
Domine exaudi vocem meam.
If thou shalt mark iniquities, O Lord, Lord, who shall stand?
For with thee is propitiation, O God of Israel.
From the depths I have cried to thee, O Lord:
Lord, hear my voice.
BTW, the Mass that is commonly celebrated today ("Novus ordo") is almost always in the vernacular (English, Spanish, Polish, etc.), but the original Vatican II documents had it first in Latin. So it is entirely permissible to celebrate the Novus ordo Mass in Latin. The Introit in my last comment was used, like all the Introits at St Paul's these days, for a Novus ordo Mass partly sung in Latin (and Greek for the Kyrie). At that very Mass, I found myself standing there, as I often do, chanting the Credo in Latin, something I haven't done since the days of Sister Helen and Holy Rosary Academy. So, if you miss Latin, ask your Priest to get his act together and celebrate a "normal" Mass sometime at least partly in Latin. That's assuming, of course, he knows a word of that language.
I'm going to a Tridentine (yes, "Latin") Mass on the 28th at St Paul's. The choir and everyone else are sweating bullets trying to get THAT together. It's going to be the full Gold, smells & bells routine, complete with a boy choir singing Palestrina (or maybe Victoria). I'm sure some Rad Trads could pick holes in it, if they wanted, so I kind of wish Simon was there to act as an official critic to prepare us for the inevitable snark.
In case you wonder who Simon is, all you need do is consult your Disgruntled Althouse Commenter Directory under "Conservatives who should have known better." I'm under "Moderate conservatives who should have had their heads examined."
Please forgive the typos, repeated words, inconsistent italics, etc. in the above. It is late. It is a blog comment. And it only gets ONE editing run-through.
Love Palestrina.
Love di Lasso more, though.
Good listening tips, Tim!
Tim, that priests in my parish are part of this organization.
Good chanters. DVDs available.
Excellent, Michael. If your Priests are still chanting (and can stay on pitch), they're doing better than 90% of the Priests I know!
Actually, the PDFs from the Liber Usualis for each week on that site are very helpful. During Lent, especially, the choir chants a lot and avoids polyphonic music. Having the music already extracted from the Liber Usualis could save some digging through dog-eared copies for those of us who like to follow along.
The new Music Director has gone to printing the Psalms in Chant notation in the worship aids, although they're perfectly well written-out in modern notation in the old hymnals the School had printed long ago and are still in the pews. Most of the congregation has given up trying to puzzle out Chant notation, and just follows along by ear.
But once you can read Chant notation, it opens new possibilities to acquaint yourself with a very old musical tradition. So, good on your Priests, Michael. I'm going to poke around that site some more. Thanks!
Ah, Michael, I've done a little more research, and it dawns on me your crew, "Institute of Christ the King Sovereign Priest," is the one a local Priest I know said were, "the next best thing to heretics," and "parasites on the Church." Another Priest I know of quite conservative temperament was more sympathetic, but he also felt your guys were flirting with heresy. He made the point they're Secular Canons, and not proper Diocesan Priests, nor do they belong to a properly-constituted Order. They seem to be floating out there in the Never-Never Land of the Catholic Right.
The Choir School where I teach uses what might be viewed as a very conservative Liturgy, but it is definitely Novus Ordo, and the Choir School and its practices are firmly embedded within the Archdiocese of Boston. The Priests, with the exception of the charming and brilliant guy who is the Harvard Graduate Chaplain, are regular Diocesan Priests. The Cardinal pays us regular visits, as do other visiting Bishops and Archbishops when in Boston. We're the "gem of the Archdiocese," and Archbishops of Boston have been proud to show us off for 50 years now.
St Paul's occasionally celebrate a Tridentine Mass, as I mentioned, but it's not a regular occurrence. Tridentine Masses replace Novus Ordo Masses on a regular basis only at one church in Newton in the Boston Archdiocese, if I'm not mistaken.
All these Culture Wars over Liturgy leave me cold, as they do the Pastor of St Paul's and a number of other Priests and a Nun I know. Those of us who think this way are happy with Liturgical flexibility. After all, the Church says it will listen more to the Laity, and a good portion of the Laity, both in this country and in Europe—especially Germany—say they would like the Tridentine Mass as an option.
I have found that preferring the old forms can have almost nothing to do with personal politics. I know Clergy who are, politically, on the Looney Left, but who prefer a Liturgical "high Church," including an option for the Tridentine Mass. And I know several fairly conservative Priests who regard the whole Tridentine thing with great suspicion, despite Benedict's championing it, and who think, as I said, that advocates of the Extraordinary Form (as the Tridentine Mass is known) are flirting with Heresy and ought not to be tolerated.
But politics are politics. It's just too bad so many modern versions thereof have to be so unconnected with reality, whether secular or spiritual.
Tim - Heretics? No. The Institute was founded with Papal permission and serve in various locations only after being given permission by the local Archbishop to do so.
Our Archbishop, a notoriously conservative guy, stops by for Confirmation and loans a diocesian priest when an extra hand is needed.
Michael, That's good. The Catholic Church has a big tent, and I'm glad your Archbishop has welcomed this group. I think they're an important alternative, and, frankly, I wish some Diocesan Priests had their training.
Cardinal O'Malley (Cardinal Séan, as he likes to be called) here in Boston has a pretty open attitude towards the Extraordinary Form. Despite his fairly radical Franciscan roots (I mean "radical" in a Christian sense) and personal preference for simplicity, he seems happy enough to have the older form around if it will draw people back to the Church.
But I know quite a few Clergy, and opinion is pretty divided. Guys our age, who came up immediately after Vatican II, and who tend to be liberal politically, are generally irate to one degree or another. Younger Priests and one young Nun I know, seem fine with the Extraordinary Form and a general revival of traditional Church discipline. They weren't part of its overthrow, but have been living with its aftermath. Vatican II can't be undone, and shouldn't be undone (denying its legitimacy is where the heresy comes in), but making adjustments to accommodate people who, in fact, want more of the Church in their lives seems to a lot of younger Clergy as a sensible thing. And, of course, there's the whole issue of Memory (I can't remember the Greek word), that the Church regards as important, both theologically and liturgically.
Oh, what a mess. But it always has been. May God continue to bless it.
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