So they hooked me up with this giant machine that I have to wear when I sleep. It shoots pure oxygen into you in big doses. I thought I would have a problem but I didn't. I slept like a baby and had the best sleep I have had in years.
It's funny. The only time I had a good sleep was when II got smashed. Alcohol serves as a relaxant and keeps your airway open. So I told Lisa why not let just got to bed drunk every night It would work just as good as the machine and she wouldn't have to sleep with a guy who looks like Hannibal Lecter.
She wouldn't go for it.
So I will be wearing a mask to bed. Like Zorro or something. Jeeez.
155 comments:
Welcome to the apnea club! I've been wearing the mask for 12 years. It's really not that bad, though my CPAP only uses ambient air, not oxygen.
If you go to bed with alcohol on your breath and hook up the O2, be sure there are no lit candles around. Just sayin'
Junior Soprano. Except you have a lovely woman taking care of you, not Bobby Baccala.
You are more like Dennis Hopper in Blue Velvet. '
Alcohol only gets you drowsed enough to think you are sleeping. It actually helps block your airway even more when you finally go to sleep.
So they have you on Oxygen? You are sort of like Michael Jackson too.
Troop, your life should be a reality TV show.
He needs propofol, a few hundred million dollars and a teenage boy to be like Michael Jackson.
And he has way too much nose.
So did Michael, at first...
What's so unusual about wearing a mask to bed?
Oh, you mean for sleeping. Well alright, then.
What's so unusual about wearing a mask to bed?
As long as you wear your cape and leotards too, I don't see a problem with that.
We have a friend who has been using a CPAP for years now. He also said, it make a world of difference in being able to sleep soundly. Lisa will get used to the CPAP. The inconvenience of it is far outweighed by the alternative of you not using it.
7 Machos says chicks dig the masked-man look.
LOL, Chip!
Troop: Here's the kind of bar you have to look forward to when you get released with your new O2 addiction.
They "flavor" the gas.
BTW, the word "oxygen" derives from the meaning of sharp/sour/acid-generating.
Let us know if you feel any such side effects.
Nice smock. Take that home and duplicate it. You'll make a fortune on that open back idea. I'd buy my lady one.
Folks, Our total is $363, leaving us $247. How about gift cards of roughly equal splits, Amazon and a day spa? Before proceeding w/ the spa, I'll make sure it's a place Lisa likes.
Gift cards are foolproof.
OTOH, if we sent one of these every head-bobble would remind him of the chuckleheads here.
ChipS, I like the idea. But, I think it's inside baseball, as it were. I would kick in $20 on an eBay purchase. Maybe fellow baseball/sport fans would also join. A sort of "Along w/ the Spectacular Showcase of gifts you get a Mariano Bobblehead!" Neither my bride or I do eBay, but I'm in if someone want to do it.
I agree with anything that doesn't require me to move my ass or see Trooper's. Those poor nurses.
nick, whatever you think is the best gift is fine w/me. I think the most important thing is that everybody's in it together as one group.
Your friend and former associate Tony Soprano pronounced that name as "Hannibal Lecture".
Don't be like Tony.
What DBQ said is true. When MrM saw Trooper's picture, he laughed the laugh that always makes me happy and said, "Tell him she'll get used to it!"
I've used a CPAP for 10 years and believe it saved my life. I can still remember the incredible relief and deep sleep I had the first night I used it.
It was a conversation with my neighbor, not my MD, that prompted me to look into sleep apnea and make an appointment with the clinic, after hearing her describe the symptoms and relief she and her husband had both experienced.
Since then I've used it faithfully with good results, except for the fact that I had to switch from a CPAP (with constant pressure) to a BI-PAP (with two levels of pressure for an inhale and exhale) last year after developing a terrible cough and a breathing underwater feeling. Turns out the constant pressure was preventing the exhale, which caused the "not enough air and too much CO2" symptoms to show up. Thankfully, I was due for a yearly appointment at the Sleep Clinic, and the Nurse Practitioner there knew her stuff, enough to convince me to try a BIPAP loaner, which brought relief within the week.
If you use a full face mask and find it leaking, there's a wonderful product called "RemZzzzs" which Lisa could probably get your seamstress to custom make in dashing Hawaiian prints and sell them as SnaZzzzs!
TY, I'm glad your apnea was discovered. Not only does the machine allow the body to sleep without struggling for air, it also restores the opportunity to dream. something I didn't know I was missing until it returned!
Co-worker got one and says its changed his life, more energy and solved some of his medical problems.
Hell, you'll just look like you're playing football in Denver. You know, where the good Manning brother plays.
ESPN is airing a 30/30 doc on the Manning family. All of their docs are good. They have never seen footage of dad dropping Eli on his head when he was a baby. If not for that...
ChipS, I've done stuff like this before and learned that going w/ the gift cards is usually the most safe way, or "foolproof" as you put it. Amazon is a no brainer for the big boy. I think the right spa is for Lisa.
How do we get it done Nick and Chick? Where do I send the gift card?
Nick you can also email me a place to send my contribution to you for the edible basket. evilbloggerlady@gmail.com Thanks for organizing this thing.
Do you have to sleep on your back with that thing on or can you be on your side or stomach?
I can't sleep on my back. The only way I could sleep with that machine on my face is if it was pumping ether.
You're looking good, Troop. That makes me glad.
Evi, I just sent you an email.
Just send a contribution, it will go toward the fruit and gift cards.
Do you have to sleep on your back with that thing on or can you be on your side or stomach?
I cannot sleep on my back. I wear one (though not that style mask) and I sleep on my side.
They make you sleep on your back for the "sleep study" to determine the severity of your apnea.
The only way I could sleep with that machine on my face is if it was pumping ether.
Who is Ether, and is she related to Ethyl?
Troop, the mask could potentially hinder intimacy but I bet Michael Douglass wishes he'd worn one.
I don't sleep for shit in a strange bet either. My nurse practitioner wanted to send me for a sleep study. I didn't see the point--I knew already I'd sleep badly there.
But not in the same bad way as at home.
Geez Chicks.
LOL.
Thanks Cody. I have a "JD" degree.
When I was in school they always told me I wasn't going to get anywhere in life being such a smart ass.
Now I can tell them I'm working toward my JD and they'll actually think they were wrong.
Nice!
Crackers is taking shots at...well, us.
For caring about Jimmy D.
And stuff. Rotisserie boy calls it "heroic"
I was going to post the link but why. If anyone cares they can read it themselves.
How does one person hold that much bitterness without bursting into flame?
Bitterness is chemically the opposite of sourness. Both signify an imbalance.
Cody, Just let it go.
Since the cocktail and appetizer industry is taking a big revenue hit due to you being laid up, I'm doing my part to help.
Cocktails and appetizers chez Haz this evening. And I'm prepared to continue as long as the industry is in trouble.
Damn good to see you getting better Troop. Damn good. Take care, take it easy, and you'll be back home in a short few days. Best to Lisa as well.
And many thanks to Nick for his awesomeness. He's a guido and he didn't keep the money, imagine that.
*works on plan to have someone at the h0spital swap out the oxygen for helium*
Michael, I wonder if Marco Polo's is ready for the decline in business they'll see.
As long as you're mixing, I'll have a Harpoon.
works on plan to have someone at the h0spital swap out the oxygen for helium*
Since he's dressed like a diver, he should be breathing heliox.
Trooper's downtime is going to send an enormous ripple in the Carroll St economy.
My God, I'd love to have a drink right now.
Trooper is a good guy and it shows.
That other guy, not so much.
OMG, I've never visited the CrackMC site before...
Wow.
Heh. Chick's got Troop ready to head down to the Doria.
Bitter is the opposite of sour? I thought savory was in there someplace?
Back out slowly, Palladian. Don't come up too fast though--remember to do the proper decompression, you don't want to get the bends.
And yes--I could also really use about half a bottle of nice scotch.
Just so we are clear, I meant the guy that Cody referred to, not anyone here.
I think gift cards would be a good choice.
Candlesticks always make a nice gift, too.
I am heading to a 25th anniversary where the couple are renewing their vows. All you men know it wasn't the guys idea. This guy is pissed he can't watch the Wisconsin game tonight. The things we do. I'm blessed because my bride doesn't make me do shit I don't want to do, and I happily reciprocate. Oh, there's obligatory family stuff, but that's about it. If I didn't go to this thing, no shit or guilt from my bride. But, now days, I think you have to honor marriage. They're good, faithful people, but stale as 10 day old bread. Pour me 5 fingers of Maker's Haz.
Sixty, Great clip.."Ok, let's get two."
Yeah, that movie made that team famous. They went from single A to triple A and while I really preferred the old team to the new, I do listen to Bulls games on the radio, mainly because they preempt regularly scheduled shows.
But I am over big league ball - the minors seem a lot closer to the game that I played and loved.
Also, I can see that park from here.
Right now I'm sipping 2011 Boogle Cab. With a kid in college, I've been reduced to the cheap stuff. Not bad for $9.95. Red wine is good for your heart, so I regard it as health food.
I hope when Trooper gets out he isn't reduced to a diet of tofu and twigs with water to drink. You CAN get by on tofu and twigs, as long as you have a little Medoc to wash it down. At least that's what my wife says, which is one reason I would have no problem renewing our vows.
My son tells me he needs a more expensive meal plan, as he just isn't getting enough food. I toldl him I have the same problem with Cabernet Franc.
Sixty's right about minor league ball. I recall many a pleasant summer evening up in Lowell watching the Spinners. Much more fun than the Red Sox at about 1/10 the price.
Now that the kids have gotten older and more cynical about baseball, we don't go. What with the steroid scandal, they regard baseball as a dirty sport, and football as the real American sport to watch. They say football's "cleaner." Ouch. Kids growing up at this point will think that way forever. Maybe Bud Selig wasn't all that smart with the self-flagillation. There is a lot to be said for rugs and sweeping under.
Of course, it doesn't help that baseball takes 5 hours to play anymore.
If they could get the games down to 2 hours it would help a lot.
My God, I'd love to have a drink right now.
I'll have one for you then. Scotch and water.
Glug.
After hearing everyone's sleep stories I feel pretty good about myself. I can sleep anywhere, anytime, on my side or on my back. I have some really kick-ass detailed colorful dreams...Often just like watching a movie, but one that I can control. Rarely a nightmare, unless you count the one where I am unable to remember the combination to my locker and I am with my (now deceased) mother for some reason at an unknown educational institution and we are trying to get the books so we can take a math test.....but I can't remember the damned locker combination!
Bitter is the opposite of sour?
Alkaline and acidic are complimentary opposites in that sense. But we don't consider their tastes to be opposite. "Bittersour" is an oxymoron because they annihilate each other. Bittersweet, sweet and sour are actual flavor combos.
They say football's "cleaner."
TT, your kids should search for some pix of NFL players from the '60s or '70s. Either that'll change their opinion, or else their definition of "clean" = "everybody uses."
Okay, the bluegrass tv show is over and Pandora is playing the Klezmatics - got that sucker turned up all the way - neighbors be damned! A gut yontev yidn!
Badgers are about to kick some Ohio State butt.
I thought I said "savory".
So as an edible arrangement we didn't chip in for liver and fava beans, is that right?
Nick, here's your Maker's Mark.
*slides tumbler down the bar*
Glenmorangie FTW (for the whiskey)!
Isn't "edible arrangement" code speak for "blind date"?
Ever notice how Darcy's never around on the weekends?
Could it be she actually has a life?
Michael: I remember her!
Chip: "...pix of NFL players from the '60s or '70s" might as well be the 20's for us. This points out a disadvantage to being an old fart with young kids. *23 Skidoo!*
Of course, if one looks at pictures of anyone involved in athletics from the 60's vs now. That goes for the sports with the strictest drug testing. People train and eat better now than they did then.
Not everything is about steeroids and growth hormone.
And if she DOES wanna sleep with Hannibal Lecter, does that not raise even MORE disturbing questions?
In Silence Of The Lambs, Lecter may have worn the mask but it was Buffalo Bill who was a clothier who had a thing for large women...
Was she a great big fat person?
Well who wouldn't want to sleep with Hannibal Lecter?
The voice inspiration for Chris Griffin, right there.
Folks, Our total is $363, leaving us $247. How about gift cards of roughly equal splits, Amazon and a day spa? Before proceeding w/ the spa, I'll make sure it's a place Lisa likes.
Nick, you know what I voted for!
You know, where the good Manning brother plays.
There are no good Manning brothers.
Signed,
Gator Nation
PS Peyton never beat Danny Wuerffel, not even in the pros. HA! Also, unlike Peyton, Danny won a national championship in college, and a Heisman Trophy. And did all that without getting successfully sued for sexually harassing the staff.
When I was in school they always told me I wasn't going to get anywhere in life being such a smart ass.
When I was a boy, one of my grandmothers told me to stop being such a smart ass. I asked her if she'd prefer I were a dumb ass instead. Now that I'm older, I really wish I could apologize for that.
Ritmo, "And a nice chianti."
Icepick, Got your vote.
You guys didn't have to spend money like that. We are really touched.
I just know that we are blessed and are truly grateful.
Thank you all from the bottom of our hearts.
I had several friends stop by the hospital to hang out with me while Lisa went home to rest.
I am sure that you all have friends like that.
Other people don't. We should just pity them and move on.
Ok, So this couple renewed their vows in their barn. It was a beautiful afternoon for some reason they decided to have this @ night. It's pouring rain, the barn stinks, the roof leaks and it's fuckn' hot. The guy says his vows and starts crying like a little girl. The women all love it but the dudes all have this "man up, and let's eat" look on their faces. The food was good, roast pig, beans, corn, etc. Then a DJ cranks up the noise and nobody can talk. We got the fuck out. God bless them and I hope they have 25 more years. I'm just glad I'm home.
Well who wouldn't want to sleep with Hannibal Lecter?
It's not the sleeping that the problem.
TT, your kids couldn't be more wrong about football being cleaner. It's more a question of danged near everyone doing it.
Cody, not everything is about steroids. But when you see people that are very vascular and have muscles that look like sausages that are about to pop, you know you're dealing with PEDs. Even in tennis, where it's clear to anyone that just wants to LOOK that Serena Williams and Rafeal Nadal, to name two, are clearly using PEDs. OTOH, Federer looks like the guys that played back in the 1970s, body-wise, and even well into the 1980s. I stopped watching tennis for the most part in the 1990s, though, but I see these pictures of Serena and Rafa and just think, "WOW! That's blatant!"
Trooper, we're not spending money like that. We're spending about what we would if we were all sending cards and maybe a cheap arrangement of flowers (for those who are giving a little more). But even for a smallish group, it adds up quickly, and so we can (or rather Nick can) get things a little more substantial than cards and other such mementos.
So just shut yer yap, and take this display of friendship and generosity like a man. A man in a gown. With his ass hanging out. Wearing a gimp mask.
The women all love it but the dudes all have this "man up, and let's eat" look on their faces.
We are men, so give us MEAT!
"Talk to me, Goose."
Batman better watch out.
Batman better watch out.
I think you mean Robin. NNTIAWWT
CPAP!
@Nick - That sounds like a good idea; they'll both enjoy the gifts.
"Day Spa" would be a good name for a dive bar.
Icepick, while I agree with you on some of what you said about PEDs and tennis and whatever, I have to say you aren't right (or totally right, anyway) about other stuff. A big part of my personal and professional life revolves around the stuff. I've worked closely with people who were taking a gram and a half to two grams of various hormones (test and the other neat stuff they add in--and a TRT maintenance dose is 200mg test a week) who didn't look like you describe, I've also worked with people who barely used protein powder that came out looking like Serena.
Meh. The whole PED issue is one of those sore spots for me. I really hate that anytime anyone does anything anymore everyone points and yells "PEDs!".
I can honestly say though--I've never seen a vial of Testosterone throw a ball, hit a ball, lift a weight or return a serve.
I will say though--the Williams sisters could very well be natural. I've seen some black people that muscled up like pro bodybuilders with very little work. Add in concentrated work, rest and nutrition and there's a recipe for "holy crap looka that".
We are men, so give us MEAT!
the clarion call heard in dozens of bathhouses across the country.
Cody, I hope to get around to a longer response, probably as a blog post, this evening. But a couple of quick points. First, I'm not really all that concerned with PED use, save as an interesting phenomenon. The moral judgement end is just less interesting to me.
Second, the Williams sister's are interesting because Serena's physique has changed greatly through the years, yet Venus's hasn't. And Serena looks way more muscled than Venus now. Heck, Serena looks bigger than Federer now.
Finally, I know that PEDs by themselves don't improve performance. Instead, they reward the virtuous. By which I mean the people that work hardest will generally get the most benefit.
I hope Trooper enjoyed the gift. Doctors are usually great, except they view your health situation with a sense of detachment, that I find disconcerting.
Slow commenting day. Everyone is either in church, hung over, or working on their fantasy football line-ups. (Ugh, to that last one.)
You forgot 2 things:
doing chores and having sexual relations (it doesn't matter with who or, or for a couple here, with what).
Roger/Rafa/Serena talk!
Paging Darcy!
It's like blake's got one of those alterhouse innertubez dog whistle things set or something.
Set for what?
I think the PED thing is interesting.
Certain things I've tried to research (on the 'net, or before that, using actual books!) over the years, I've discovered can't be researched because of the noise.
Like, with the vaccination/autism link, I remember the Amish being used as examples. And in trying to research it, I found assertions made:
* Amish don't use vaccines and don't have autism (that's what piqued my interest).
* Amish don't use vaccines and DO have autism.
* Amish DO use vaccines and don't have autism.
* Amish DO use vaccines and DO have autism.
Or how about tanning? Even though there's a ton of emerging data about vitamin D and tanning, almost everything you read will be "DON'T TAN!"
Kinda dumb.
Anyway, PEDs are like that. Steroids? They're bad! But are they? All the time? Clearly not, since there are many medical programs involving them.
On the other hand, they pushed female hormones on women for 20 years before going "Oops! That'll give ya cancer!"
WTF knows.
You forgot 2 things:
doing chores and having sexual relations
They can't type one-handed?
If we're gonna talk about PEDs, I think it's useful to distinguish between health concerns and level playing fields.
Sports are different from most other fields in that your position relative to others is the key consideration. So if you think your competitors are beating you b/c of PED use, you'll have a greater motivation to use them than you would o/w.
If the PED in question works b/c it speeds up recovery from injury, as HGH seems to do, then the case against it seems weak. It's almost like banning working out.
But if a PED is suspected of causing long-term harm, then a ban on it is in the interest of athletes as a group. Presumably this is one reason why the MLB Players' Association finally agreed to an extensive testing program.
A completely different issue is how PED use changes the nature of a sport. In baseball, this pretty clearly means a choice b/w high- or low-scoring games, as well as the relative importance of defense and speed. Related to this is the question of comparability of player stats over time, as PED use rises or falls.
To blake's point that there is uncertainty over the health consequences of steroids, I'd say that's a reason to ban them until the research becomes relatively clear. It's completely different from the autism/vaccine thing, b/c there are obvious and huge benefits from vaccination. The benefits from steroids mostly accrue to users at the expense of non-users.
I guess I haven't been following this too closely - Troop is 'roiding it?
Dude, pace yourself!
His performance enhancing drug is Viagra.
Hog Growth Hormone
If you leave the scare tactic stuff behind and actually study the research and journals, you'll find steroids are actually remarkably safe.
Like a lot of things, over-use/abuse and end user stupidity create a lot of problems.
I know guys that have spend literally decades abusing (not using) all manner of steroids and are fine. I also know people that have had bad reactions to things as simple as aspirin.
Blake: in innertubez dog whistle alert set to anything Darcy related. I thought that was obvious? LOL
I don't understand the people that use stupidly. Like one of the things Nomar was supposed to have used was winstrol. Bodybuilders use it for their cutting cycles, it leads to dry gains. But it also leads to joint issues. Even medical/scientific journals don't really know why--some say it strengthens tendons unevenly, others suggest it actually weakens tendons.
Now...what was one of Nomar's biggest problems related to why he couldn't stay on the field and even why he had to retire relatively young?
See--that's stupid. That's an end user being stupid. He wanted to look good with his shirt off in his candy ass nike commercials.
I hope, with a tacky heart etc that he's leaving both the V and the C alone. Especially the V though.
I know guys that have spend literally decades abusing (not using) all manner of steroids and are fine. I also know people that have had bad reactions to things as simple as aspirin.
Well, then, I guess the science is settled.
I worked a case involving a steroid using body builder. He had 2 knees blow out @ work. The surgeon said that steroid use weakened his joints and caused the knee injuries. Based on that, the work comp refused to pay his claim. They hired me to gather evidence of his steroid purchases and other testimony. I found an ex girlfriend. She not only saw him inject, she injected him. And, she mentioned another side effect. She told me, "Our sex was almost non existent, I couldn't even suck him up a hardon and I gave some serious head." So there's that.
That's unfair, Chip. I specifically said "if you leave off the scare tactics and actually study the journals".
Don't try to make out like I only suggested anecdotal evidence as the key. That's a bullshit discussion tactic.
Depends on what he was using and whether he was smart about it or not.
Certain compounds (like deca) are particularly bad for the sex life. In the community there's even a term for it--deca dick.
Or he might've just thought more meant better without using the proper AI.
The body wants homeostasis. It will, if there's extra testosterone, actually change some of the test to estrogen. If the test level gets too high, more estrogen is produced, then when the test starts to come down (think half life)--you're stuck with all this extra estrogen, and estrogen is as sure a killer of a hard on as a crying baby.
Troop, I was reading around in the Hammacher Schlemmer catalog and I came across a product that might be helpful when you get home. It's called the CPAP Pillow. Here's some of the description from the catalog: This is the pillow that optimizes CPAP mask efficiency while increasing the comfort of its wearer. Unlike typical pillows that interfere with mask performance by breaking a cushion's seal, this pillow's hose-friendly, twin cutaways prevent a mask from leaking while its cool breathable mesh, perforated memory foam maximizes comfort and limits perspiration...
If you go to Hammacher.com the CPAP pillow is in the personal care section under new arrivals.
Cody, if you want to claim support from journal articles, then cite specifics.
O/w, expect to get called out for anecdotal evidence.
There's a doctor in the Phx area, a man named Dr. Al Borhan. He recently told a newspaper that he'd personally had ten cases of teenagers developing testicular cancer because of steroid use.
Oddly enough--there are zero documented cases of steroids causing testicular cancer in the medical literature. But this doctor has ten patients?
That's the kind of bullshit I mean. If you look at the literature you'll find a vast difference from what the media is trying to report.
Do we really want to turn Troop's place into a giant pubmed link?
I dunno. I find it annoying that I say look at the research and you choose to ignore that and focus on what I offered from my personal decades long experience.
I also noticed you didn't do the same with Blake or Spinelli.
So there's that.
The last guy around here who couldn't stop talking about 'roids was Titus. Remember his narrative of shooting up in the handicap stall in some men's room? I can't unremember some stuff.
No need to take things quite so personally, Cody. I addressed you b/c you were the person who said he knew the relevant research findings. My own brief search turned up lots of references to possible health consequences of steroid abuse, but no actual clinical studies. So I'd like some help from someone knowledgeable.
I'm aware of the medical uses of steroids, such as the treatment of allergies. We're talking about the use of anabolic steroids for weight training, AFAIK.
I don't think that Trooper's blog will be hurt at all by the provision of a couple of links. I think that'd be a useful contribution.
Yeah, I was thinking of that, Chick.
I have no doubt that guys abuse it, as Chip says--because here's a guy getting (or claiming to get) shot up in a stall.
But, like Cody, I've seen studies that suggest it doesn't have to be bad/might be beneficial, with all sorts of caveats, disclaimers, specificities, etc.
It's interesting to me the topics that have that kind of emotional charge: You just can't talk about them.
It's not like marijuana, for example. I don't think anyone these days argues against the fact that, as far as intoxicating substances go, marijuana is pretty harmless.
Some will argue that it's more powerful than it used to be, but with over 40% of the population having used it, we've reached this kind of equilibrium: It's not horrible, is less destructive (to society) than alcohol, and people are gonna use it—but some of them are going to go to jail anyway because War On Drugs.
Kind of like Obamacare: We're gonna do it no matter how destructive it is.
But this same society is the one that insists "no, no, no, you mustn't ever tan" and "no, you must ALWAYS vaccinate" (or NEVER, depending on which circles you run in) or "no, you can take all kinds of recreational drugs but not steroids--even if the rec drugs affect your steroids destructively too".
Long before the autism scare, it was well known that the polio vaccine was the leading cause of polio. Salk even talked about this in the '60s.
This doesn't mean people shouldn't get vaccinated, but you can't weigh risk and reward if people are obsessed with distorting the facts so they favor their desired outcome.
This is the destructive effect of post-modern/leftist philosophy on thought and discourse.
It's okay to bullshit about secondhand smoke because it might save someone and no one should be smoking anyway.
Crap like that.
I'm actually more tolerant of recreational steroid abuse than of professional athletes using it. The reasoning is that there are risks, but the athletic advantages seem manifest. Allowing athletes to use them openly effectively forces every athlete to do so or to lose that advantage.
'Roid Rage. Or, maybe 'Rhoid rage, mine have been acting up lately.
Guaranteed there's a way to take steroids such that your current performance is enhanced at the cost of your long-term viability.
I mean, guys aren't allowed to juice before games (sorta) precisely for that reason.
And yet...the nature of the training and playing these guys do? Shortens their lifespans dramatically and cripples them young.
So...what are we protecting, exactly?
Also, Cody, I don't need an Internet alert for Darcy.
I have binoculars.
I'm thinking of Clemenza talking about "going to the mattresses" and how you got to do it every once in awhile, just to air stuff out.
blake said: I have binoculars.
So do I. We should compare sizes. Here's mine: link
Nice. Do you have the tripod? I find that frees up my hands for...other things.
So...what are we protecting, exactly?
I'll give a hypothetical. Suppose there's a class of athlete whose lifespan isn't compromised due to injury or training -- say a kicker maybe some non intense contact sport -- but whose performance is enhanced by 'roids. The use of steroids and the use alone introduces a new risks which become effectively shared by all members of that class. Either use 'em or lose it. There's something not right about that.
I have an old camera tripod (it was my dad's) which works.
I lugged those binocs and tripod to the Bob Dylan show at the Hollywood Bowl last year ('cause I knew I had cheap seats) and they impounded my tripod. I got it back though.
There's something not right about that.
It can be a type of prisoner's dilemma. If Player A uses PEDs while Player B does not--or vice versa--he gains an advantage that might outweigh the health costs to him. But if they both use PEDs, neither has gained an advantage over the other, yet both will bear the health costs. So a ban on harmful PEDs can benefit all players.
I think blake's point about the beating football players take just in the course of playing the game may be one key diff b/w the costs of 'roid usage in football vs. baseball. If you're gonna shorten your life expectancy significantly just by playing the game, the extra long-term effects of 'roids may not matter so much. But for baseball players the health consequences of using vs. not using may be much bigger.
Troop is 'roiding it?
You think moobs like that come about naturally?
Who is that masked man?
Hang in there trooper.
I'm aware of the medical uses of steroids, such as the treatment of allergies.
Anabolic steroids are used by men with HIV to counter the effects of the wasting that often occurs.
What if it could be shown that players could use anabolic steroids in a safe manner, as far as the effects of steroids themselves?
Frankly, I think the matter is far from settled. There are clearly cases of anabolic steroid abuse, both in terms of type and quantity. But at this point there are a fair number of people who have used them in some manner or another who have had a net positive benefit from them. And the ever increasing use of TRT (both in sports and by men more generally) seems to indicate that the pendulum is swinging in favor of some anabolic steroid use being a positive.
I've got a pair of antique binoculars if the topic is binoculars.
If it's about making power remarks laced with sexual innuendo, I'm in for that too. I've got two hands free to join the online game of "Whose Next on the List?"
While I enjoy the joking and back and forth banter that goes on with Darcy in regard to her hotness when's she's present and able to participate, I don't enjoy it so much when she's not here.
Thanks, Haz.
Thanks, Haz.
There were no symptoms, other than a constant fatigue I attributed to overwork, and so forth.
Pate?
MamaM said...
I've got a pair of antique binoculars if the topic is binoculars.
I also have an antique brass telescope, handed down through the patriarchy. I believe it belonged to my grandfather, who enjoyed amateur astronomy. There are no markings on it however to give away where and when it was made.
My father cherished it. He was a scuba diver and also collected "pirate paraphernalia". The telescope was part of his collection which also include pieces of eight, a treasure chest, maps, an eye patch, a hat, etc.
Argh
At first I read that as "private paraphernalia."
I blame all the Darcy talk for that.
And stay away from tofu; it depletes testosterone in men.
Oh no! I actually eat that shit fairly often at my local Chinese dive.
Thanks for the tip, MH.
Suppose there's a class of athlete whose lifespan isn't compromised due to injury or training -- say a kicker maybe some non intense contact sport
I submit there cannot be such a class of athlete, professionally.
The body has limits. Human ambition does not. When those two collide, the body will suffer. Period.
Bones break, tendons snap, muscles tear, and the aphorism "That which does not kill me makes me stronger" might arguably apply to spirits, it does not apply to human flesh.
World class athletes sacrifice their bodies to achieve what they do. I see no way around it.
"That which does not kill me makes me stronger"
I know that Hitchens denied that Nietzshean aphorism before he died, but bacteria seem to prove it's true.
@Cody
What I have is a cabin on a lake up north with no internet access, but yes, it is a life. I can't complain. :)
With the cold coming, the weekends at the are numbered until Spring again...*sigh*
I do miss Troop's place when I'm away!
We were creepin' on you while you were away.
Sorrynotsorry.
I'm not sorry either! You guys are sweet to think of me.
Haz--
I'd be curious to know how long you were on T supplements (or whether you're still) and whether you had any negative effects. (Like, was the cancer considered a potential side-effect?)
===Blake===
Thanks, Haz! That's very interesting.
I think the fact that some doctors will prescribe and some won't reinforces my point: Seems like a perfectly valid medical treatment is being regarded almost superstitiously.
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