So the Pope is quoted as saying he is going to work on "solutions to priests celibacy!" Now what is that about?
It seems that a lot of these stories are being stirred up from an interview he did with a 90 year old journalist who does not record interviews or take notes. So it could all be baloney. It could all be the media stirring up stuff. It could all be enemies and opponents of the church stirring up controversy by putting words in the Pope's mouth.
But why is this happening so often with this Pope? Why is this a recurring controversy? There seems to be a lot of damage control by the Vatican. I know I am in a distinct minority but I just don't get it with this Pope. I mean it used to be that Popes would stir up controversy by speaking about Catholic doctrine that runs counter to the secular/atheist/ progressive/libertine world view of the press. Not so much with Pope Francis.
I have to confess I just don't get this.
22 comments:
Hey, his team got beat by the Krauts. Maybe it was a sign from God.
I like this Pope. I like Benedict too. I don't think they are that different. But he has to remember every thing he said get parsed. And the lefties in the media want to turn him into some Anglican Bishop.
He's a Franciscan.
I don't want to gum up your blog with serious stuff, but Franciscans seem to take the Jesus stuff seriously.
This came in today's mail, from another Franciscan:
The significance of Jesus’ wounded body is his deliberate and conscious holding of the pain of the world and refusing to send it elsewhere. The wounds were not necessary to convince God that we were lovable; the wounds are to convince us of the path and the price of transformation. They are what will happen to you if you face and hold sin in compassion instead of projecting it in hatred.
Attempting to do that, with what results and what it looks like to others, is a whole 'nother story
MamaM, he is a Jesuit. But he does admire Francis of Assisi
One day a local pastor was visiting the home of some parishioners who had a teenage son. The parents were worried about what career their son would choose, so the pastor said he had a simple test that could predict what would become of him.
He would put three objects on a table and let the young man choose whichever one he wanted to have: a Bible, a wallet, and a bottle of scotch. If the boy chose the Bible, he would probably become a priest; if he chose the wallet, he'd be a banker; and if he chose the bottle, he'd become a worthless bum.
So the parents called their son into the room, and the pastor told him he could have whichever object he wished. When the boy promptly picked up all three, the pastor cried out, "Heaven forbid! He's going to be a Jesuit!"
A Franciscan gets a haircut, and then asks how much he owes. The barber says he never charges clergy. The Franciscan thanks the barber and goes home. The next morning the barber finds a big basket of fresh bread from the Franciscans' kitchens.
An Augustinian gets his hair cut by the same barber. The barber also tells him than he never charges clergy. So, the next day the barber receives a nice bottle of wine from the Augustinians' wine cellar.
A Jesuit gets his haircut, and the barber again says that he never charges clergy. The next day, when the barber gets to work, there are twelve other Jesuits already waiting for him.
Thanks, Evi. I don't know how I arrived at that conclusion (maybe it was the name), but I had it firmly in mind and appreciate the correction.
In looking up Jesuits, I find they too are focused on Jesus in a practical, down to earth way as followers of the order of Ignatius.
Oddly enough, the book I currently carry in my car/waiting room bag, is Inner Compass: An Invitation to Ignatian Spirituality, along with a book by the Franciscan previously quoted. Two writers, inspired by two Catholic saints who've touched my dirty Prod heart.
A Franciscan, a Dominican, and a Jesuit were sitting in a room when the lights went out. The Franciscan said, “My brothers, let us take this opportunity to consider the debt we owe to our sister, the light.” The Dominican said, “Yes, but let us also take this opportunity to contemplate the difference between light and dark.” Meanwhile, the Jesuit went to the basement, found the fuse box, and reset the breaker.
Jesuits taught me how to think. There's a reason confirmed atheists pay good money to have Jesuits teach their kids in Jesuit colleges. I was also taught by The Holy Cross Fathers, who run Notre Dame. My college was run by Holy Cross Fathers. Very good, but not Jesuits.
I had nuns and Jesuits in high school.
Sisters of St. Joseph and they were also very good.
This is all well and good but what does this have to do with priests celibacy?
That's for the dirty Prods.
That's why I have to use the same tag all the time.
Are Jesuits celibate? Not if you consider how much they love themselves…
Regarding what Pope Francis says - don't believe the media translations and transliterations. They reflect what the media wants to believe was said more than what was actually said.
Pope Francis appears to be open to ideas, when those ideas are presented in public conversations. That's more politeness than policy.
School Sisters of Notre Dame taught me in grade school, and I have the swollen knuckles to prove it.
That's why I have to use the same tag all the time.
Being more of a Prod, I think the "Is the Pope Catholic?" tag needs to be amended to include "or Is the Pope Christ-like?"
There ARE legitimate issues with Priestly celibacy nowadays. So far, they've mostly had to do with married Anglican Priests who've come over, and the status of the Permanant Deaconate with regard to Ordination. They also now include greater integration of Eastern traditions within the Roman orbit.
The Anglican issue is going to be a bigger problem now that the Church of England is effectively imploding, and many committed Christians among them are officially converting. I know, because I work with a couple of them. The Catholic Church has decided they ought to be welcomed back to full Communion. There is a process set up for this in England (much to the annoyance of the regular Anglican hierarchy), and an influx is under way to the Catholic Church there. The Anglicans, of course, have married Priests, and what to do with them is an ongoing issue. Anglican Clergy are to be considered for Ordination by Rome on a case-by-case basis, with a de facto fast track for Anglo-Catholics.
Domestically, we have a situation where there is a growing number of Permanent Deacons, many of whom are married. I know some of them would like to be considered for Ordination, but they are barred by their vows. There have been some exceptions, however, and this has been a sore point for some. For the sake of more Vocations, the Ordination of members of the Permanent Deaconate, married or not, is an attractive prospect. These men are often extremely committed, seasoned and mature individuals. The possibility of their Ordination is a legitimate but very difficult question.
Clerical celibacy is a DISCIPLINE in the Roman Catholic Church, and not part of Doctrine. Celibacy is not observed in the same way in Eastern Churches, which have at least an equal claim to Apostolic and Catholic status. (Ever heard Greeks complain about laxity and heresy among those lazy, no-good Roman Catholics?)
Anyway, here is what the Catechism of the Catholic Church says:
All the ordained ministers of the Latin Church, with the exception of permanent deacons, are normally chosen from among men of faith who live a celibate life and who intend to remain celibate "for the sake of the kingdom of heaven." Called to consecrate themselves with undivided heart to the Lord and to "the affairs of the Lord", they give themselves entirely to God and to men. Celibacy is a sign of this new life to the service of which the Church's minister is consecrated; accepted with a joyous heart celibacy radiantly proclaims the Reign of God.
In the Eastern Churches a different discipline has been in force for many centuries: While bishops are chosen solely from among celibates, married men can be ordained as deacons and priests. This practice has long been considered legitimate; these priests exercise a fruitful ministry within their communities. Moreover, priestly celibacy is held in great honor in the Eastern Churches and many priests have freely chosen it for the sake of the Kingdom of God. In the East as in the West a man who has already received the sacrament of Holy Orders can no longer marry.
There have been many efforts over the centuries to reconcile the two branches of the Apostolic faith and bring them into full mutual Communion. One of the by-products of this inevitably will be the status of Priests in relation to each others' traditions, and, of course, the issue of Priests in Eastern Catholic Churches, some of which have Dioceses in North America. Numbers of their Priests are married after the Eastern practice.
Ecumenical relations, the restoration of Eastern Catholic traditions and the difficult situation with regard to the lack of Vocations in the West have set up a new situation that calls for some difficult decisions. They are decisions of a kind the Church HAS made in the past with regard to changing circumstances. I have no doubt, with the guidance of the Holy Spirit, she will do so again.
Ecclesia semper reformanda.
...a new situation that calls for some difficult decisions.
Amen! Thank you for the overview, TT. When you're on, you're on! This is one of those comments that would make a good blog post, over at Lem's or your own place. Maybe not controversial enough for drama, but it certainly adds to overall awareness and understanding.
BTW, if you want to get a taste of the Catholic world I inhabit, at least part-time, check this out. I teach the kids in the Choir School, featured later in the linked post, to play the recorder. That's during the week. On Sundays, I ride herd on the Altar Servers. It's a retirement job, but I can't believe how much more fun and uplifting it is than what I did for a living for so long.
Fr. Drea, the Harvard Chaplain featured in the link, is a pretty conservative guy--He has both praised Ronald Reagan from the pulpit as a great President, and advised Catholic parishioners to consider their vote for putative Catholic politicians who favor abortion and gay "marriage." Strong stuff from the Harvard Chaplaincy. I admire him as straight-down-the middle and straight-shooting, which, frankly, can also be said of Cardinal O'Malley. who is distinctly a committed Christian and model in so many ways for everyone who has been moved by his example of personal simplicity and dedication.
And, yes, it is our Christian duty to help the poor children mentioned in the linked piece. They may be part of "population
replacement," etc., but they are first and foremost God's children in dire need. We'll worry about scheming lefties AFTER we've fed, clothed and sheltered these poor kids fleeing a nightmare of adult sin and corruption in their home countries.
And not to leave you Traditionalists out in the cold, here is a video that flirts a bit with St Paul's, and the Extraordinary Form (Tridentine) Mass that is occasionally celebrated there.
We do the Novo Ordo most of the time, and often in Latin (yes, the "Vatican II Mass" can be in Latin), and always, when appropriate, with a chanted Latin Introit. How many times in the last few years have I stood in St Paul's chanting the Credo in Latin with the rest of the congregation, just as I did back in 1956 at Holy Rosary?
BTW, the young organist in the video is a wonderful kid and a true musical genius. He also is a convert from Unitarianism, as, apparently his mother will be, too. This lad was playing public concerts of Olivier Messiaen's music at the age of 13.
I must say, with all this genius and beauty in the St Paul's orbit, nobody is too hung up on the precise form of the Mass. Both the new and the old can be wonderfully moving and beautiful memorials of Christ's sacrifice and occasions of sincere prayer and adoration. The main thing is to take the Liturgy seriously and devote every effort to its meaning, beauty, and enhancement.
Tim, Great comments and links.
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