Brilliant comment by our favorite perfume boy Palladian over at that other blog:
Palladian said...
"I've never encountered so many negative and thoroughly depressing people in my life."
"I've never encountered so many negative and thoroughly depressing people in my life."
Have you ever made a positive comment in your entire history of posting here as either "Luckyoldson", "Michael" or "Jeremy"?
If you find the place so annoying and "depressing" and negative then why do you come here, every day, posting hundreds of comments a week?
The reason is that you're a classic troll. You have no interest in anything except disrupting the comments here. We know that you've changed names several times, the classic behavior of an internet troll, yet when we complain about you, we're "bitching", according to you and to Alhouse. So what are we to do? We can't ignore your comments, you've made certain of that. We can't complain to the host because she can't and won't do anything about it. So what's the choice?
To go elsewhere, I suppose.
Ditto.
48 comments:
*clap clap clap*
Adore Palladian.
We need some trolls, here, too. Just to liven things up.
I'll start.
Darcy! Why you gotta be so goshdarn nice. You and all you people like you are always being nice and friendly. What's wrong with you? You totally fail as a troll. At Every Level!!!
There.
That'll stir up some trouble.
Me?? What about you, Blake?!
Hello? Mr. Nice Guy. Epic troll fail.
Go work on this! (What? "Go work on this"?? That's the best I can do? *sigh* Yeah. I stink at this.)
You know I'm looking at that picture of Dom Deluise and help me out here, is he pulling his own finger? That's just wrong. You can't pull your own finger.
Hey, I'm a little busy at the moment, but I've got a couple of weeks off soon, so I could be your troll(s) for a while and liven things up.
Get the comment numbers out of the single digits here? Oh, yes, I could.
You see, I'm very good at internet impersonations. You want Lucky? Michael? Jeremy? They're all subtly different, doncha know, but if I get out my little database of Gene Olsonisms, I can do each of them proud.
With a little more trouble, I can do Cyrus Pinkerton, and several other "wordy" trolls, and, for my pièce de résistance, I do Maxine Weiss.
You say that trolls drive people away. But look at the results on Althouse. The regulars are gnashing their teeth, but the DLS is that they (I) have been doing it for years, and all that has happened is that Althouse's numbers go up.
And every time the Unatroll shows up, she gets hundreds of comments. And for every old regular who flounces off, she gets five new ones. She must be doing something right.
I'm telling you, you need trolls here.
So, who do you want to start with? Jeremy? Lucky? Cyrus? Maxine? Let me know, and I'll get it rolling.
So, who do you want to start with? Jeremy? Lucky? Cyrus? Maxine? Let me know, and I'll get it rolling.
I don't want a troll per se, how about a female Titus? She can be called Tit-us and be a lesbian who talks about boobs all day long: expressing, wardrobe malfunctions, how they smell, that kind of thing. Maybe she could talk about menstruation once a month to mix things up, too.
It would be great if she could knock herself out doing jumping-jacks bra-less, like Althouse suggested, and then threaten to sue.
I don't want a troll per se, how about a female Titus?
You don't want a troll, you want a trollop.
I always assumed that Althouse approved of her trolls. Like Theo points out, they do drive up traffic.
Guys like Jeremy could provide a good service to Althouse and her commenters: he could be like the asshole opposing counsel who tries to shoot down the other side at all costs. It's actually nasty but good practice for litigators. She is a law prof at a law school right?
The problem with her academic exercise is that nobody is around to play judge, striking unfair motions etc., so things rapidly degenerate into ad hominem attacks. Oh well.
I've always enjoyed Palladian.
Three cheers for Palladian.
And was Maxine really a "troll"?
I'm always the last to know.
Maxine was more of a stalker than a troll.
Darcy,
I'm sure with practice, you can become a much better Troll--
--waitaminute!!! Guess I really do suck at this.
Sure we suck at trolling, but at least we can suck together.
Er.
Doh.
How come I rarely see comments from any of you guys any more over there? You're obviously reading, but not commenting. What's the deal.
Hi Knox: Well, the answer is pretty obvious, isn't it? Trolls have always been there, but, frankly, despite my high regard for the hostess, it has all begun to fall pale and nugatory on a tiring eye.
As I said, for every one of the regulars who slouches away, 5 fresh-faced newbies take their places, until they, too, tire of the Itchy & Scratchy show at some indeterminate point in the future.
Oh, I'm not abandoning the place completely, but, like many who sing a song of experience, I prefer to do so on my favorite instrument, the flute, which, as you know, tends to make a sweet, tweeting sound.
Knox read the comtemptious tone of her comments to Palladian's gentle criticism in the post today June 15, 2009. I don't know how to link in the comments but I would.
Anyway I venture to say it is the reason you don't see a lot of people like me and Simon and Victoria and others posting there very much anymore.
Of course I only speak for myself and I don't want to put words in anybody elses mouth. It's just not fun to play in a game when the ref doesn't call fouls. You get tired of that after a while.
I do want to say I agree wholeheartedly with Palladian but that and two dollars will get you on the subway.
Wait is it still two dollars. I think it went up. I use a metro card and I am not even sure anymore.
Hey what's your favorite pasta?
Theo you know you are always welcome here.
But please be aware that insistent opera posting will be considered trollish behavior and will be dealt with severely.
By posting you tube videos of the Insane Clown Posse.
Oh. I went over and read that, Trooper. I wish I hadn't. Makes me feel defensive of Palladian. But I know he can take care of himself very well.
And knox, I still read, though I have never been a big commenter over there. I miss the people that kept me interested in threads, though. It just doesn't seem to hold my attention like it used to.
Maybe it's just a cycle.
Some people can't deal with constructive criticism. I try to admit when I am wrong. Like when I didn't link over there when it didn't occur for me to do so. That's not an excuse but only an explaination. It is my experiance that educators can never admit that someone (students) might be right about something because they have to be in the power position and are contempous of other peoples point of view. That's why academics scoff at the views of people who actually work in the field. They have a degree, their the teacher what do you know?
The essense of maturity is to listen to someone elses point of view and learn from it. Even if you are just learning what you don't want to do. Everybody is wrong sometimes. It takes a big person to admit that and make changes.
When it comes to trolls I say follow the money.
What person in their right mind would do what these idiots do? But, I guess since most of them seem to be Obamabots, the 'right mind' description is out the window to start with, but even given that, what is teh motivation for destroying discussion on a topic, unless destryoing that conversation is a means to an end?
Who gains when 'Jeremey (or what eever his name of the week is) stops a topic cold? Either he gets paid to disrupt the gentile discourse, or he is an adolesent (probably only mentally) that just gets his jollys upseting the adults in the room.
I've done a fair bit of research, as have others, including Palladian, and I think we've all come to similar conclusions: "Jeremy" and the rest are the product of a 62 or 63-year-old psychologist in Southern California, who teaches at Santa Monica College.
I always thought that the original "Lucky" comments used too many carefully deployed, emotionally-charged words and phrases to be simply the product of a mental defective. It seemed to me that a trained psychologist must be behind this. Sure enough, a person with the identified real name of The Troll turns up teaching psychology at Santa Monica College.
And, of course, all the major trolls have IP addresses originating in Southern California.
But the Troll from Hell does not just play "Jeremy" and pals. I've run across very convincing Sitemeter evidence that one of the less-common "wordy" trolls--you know, the sort that tries to tangle people up in fights over definitions, etc.--was from the same small So. Cal. town as our Main Troll. What are the chances of that?
"Maxine Weiss" and friends also have in the past originated from computers easily traced to the Psychology Department at UCLA.
Southern California. Psychology. A guy who lives in the area who was proven to be Lucky, with someone of the same name teaching Psych at a junior college.
That's the outline of the evidence. Draw your own conclusions.
Mine are that all this is a planned, sophisticated, ongoing attack on the Althouse blog (sorry no link), and that she is countering it with some subtlety and an insistence on her core principle of free speech, and for the sake of a foolish consistency, chooses not to do more.
Trouble is, in the meantime, many of us have been driven compleately bonkers by this, and have for some time been seeking alternate tourist stops along the Information Superhighway.
Well you see I think we have to agree to disagree Theo. The way for evil to triumph if for good men to do nothing. Or rather to say nothing about it.
To ask people to put funny and interesting comments on your blog and then refuse to have at least a minimum level of decency seems to me to be foolish and very shortsighted. I mean you can not have someone posting a hundred comments where the main retort is "suck my dick." That is not free speech. That is just lazy blogkeeping. I mean to ask people to give you money and then not provide a minimum of customer service is irritating at best and a gross insult at worst. An insult to your intelligence. You can get some one to edit the comments if you don't want to do that yourself. (That’s what boy toys are for, hey Meade).
I have followed several different blogs and have dropped many of them after they have veered into repetitious dochebaggery. I might stop by and read it now and then but the impulse to participate is not there when things deteriorate to such a degree.
I remember about a year ago when you got really pissed about something and announced that you were leaving and deleting all of your comments. You were really pissed and to be honest about it I forgot what it was about. You did change you mind and resumed commenting especially in your guise as the blogging cockroach and Sir Archy. You just changed your mind. I reserve the right to do so myself. But I fully associate myself with the remarks of rotund homosexual of Williamsburg as he seems to be carrying the water for a lot of commentors. Or maybe he is retaining water. Whatever.
In any event, what’s the blogging cockroach’s favorite pasta?
And, of course, all the major trolls have IP addresses originating in Southern California.
Like who?
Theo. My conclusions as I stated over at the other blog are that the attack is probably part of a class project by a low end psychology teacher.
Try to see how much disruption that a set of trolls or multiple people posing as the same troll can accomplish. While making these disruptions analyze the reactions and personalities of the other posters.
It would be interesting if it wasn't so malicious and annoying.
Hey Dust Bunny Queen, I would love to post one of your reciepes for one of the pasta categories. Your reciepes are always right on the mark and you would fit right in with Lidia and Little Big Head.
DBQ: I think you are very likely correct. It could also just be a bunch of academic Psych types enforcing their political views, but your theory makes more sense, given the manpower needed to keep it up.
Hey, Chickenlittle: I don't want to give my methods away (mostly I've stolen other people's obserations), but was pretty E-Z to follow where most of the old Lucky charms came from near San Diego. My uncle lives a mile away. But then, some of them came from computers belonging to UCLA, as definitely did a lot of Maxine. Other people, such as Inspektor Friedrich (as I recall) have traced this with a lot more computing power and internet connections than I've got.
But, then again, I'm only mildly obsessed with rotten bastards who ruin other people's fun. Sorry, a lot of them seem to be in So. Cal. So was I, until I saw the light and moved to Boston.
Therein hangs an ongoing tale that I'm glad Trooper said something about first. Like a troll, I'm just going to ignore his insults against Truth and Light and Decency, and give serious thought instead to his excellent linguini and clam recepie.
The only light you are gonna see in Boston is the oncoming Yankee express train to the World Series Baby!
Troop, you have the light touch. Calling Palladian perfume boy. That's beautiful. The truth but lightly and affectionately. I can't do that. Not enough self-confidence I suppose. All I can do is fling excrement at Palladian when he flings it at me. I hope he knows I love him underneath it all. That's why you're needed back at Althouse. Hitting the mark but doing it with wit and affection. So Althouse is a cruel neutral. So what? Come back, Shane.
Er, for the record, while I am in Southern California, I have never taught (or even taken) a course at Santa Monica College. Though I have been on the campus.
I did graduate from UCLA but haven't been back in years. If I were trolling and wanted a different IP, I might use UCLA's machines, though. (Well, I wouldn't, because there are a lot better ways to do that, but someone who didn't know how might.)
Also, the People's Republic of Santa Monica might just have more than a few people who are just moonbatshit crazy enough to sustain this kind of stunt for a long time.
See? That's why I love ricpic, too.
Actually you would get along with Palladian just fine ricpic. We all like to spout off on the internet and let our freak flags fly. You guys agree on a lot and I bet you really have a live and let live attitude. If he wants put his pickle in some kiska's, hey it takes all kinds to make a world.
But you don't want to go where people don't want to do any work to make it a pleasant place to visit. I mean we steam and fix every garment in the store before someone tries it on. If they try it on and we have to put it back on the rack, we make sure it is pristine for the next customer. It's the job of the staff and the owner to hang up the clothes, not the customers. You have to work and not just sit on your ass if you know what I mean.
I have enough to do. Why would I want to take on someone elses work?
And be scolded to boot!
I have a wife to yell at me, thank you very much.
I am telling you this for the last time.
Hee.
Knox wrote:
How come I rarely see comments from any of you guys any more over there?
What did cause the great Althousian Diaspora?
Several commenters I used to really like on Althouse went missing (hello Victoria?) and others are just as easy to keep in contact here or especially on Twitter.
TY wrote:
You can get some one to edit the comments if you don't want to do that yourself. (That’s what boy toys are for, hey Meade).
LOL! Gotta wonder what he will do up there after he whips Althouse's lawn into shape.
Hey lawn boy knows about weeding you know what I mean.
Just sayn.
They can't be suckin face twenty four seven after all.
Yeah, I throttled way back a few months ago over there because of the ratio of noise to signal. After today's nonsense I gotta bail out of there. God bless Palladian in trying to hold out, but enough is enough.
Well, thanks for all the responses.
I stayed away from the Althouse blog for a long time after the election because I was just OVER politics and also couldn't take the trolling. And even now there are definitely days where I start to check in over there, and am too worn out by the thought of wading through it all.
Anyway, I guess I knew that was what was going on, but I was sort of in denial. But then too many people missing for too long.
I haven't seen John Stodder commenting in a long time. I have no idea if it's connected to this or not, but he's someone whose comments I always look for. Ditto Vic and Simon.
I don't understand Althouse's tolerance of LOS because it seems so blatantly engineered to destroy her wonderful blog. NOT to express different viewpoints, or to enrich the discussion, but to post as many inflammatory things as possible to ruin every thread of interest.
I am willing to admit that some of the annoyance at him stems from political disagreement. But when someone posts with ridiculous frequency ALL THE TIME , no matter what they're saying, it's inappropriate. Hugs, Lem! but for a while there I was hoping he'd move on because it was too much.
I envy the people who can take the laid back, equivocal stance on it all and just "ignore" it. I simply don't see how that's possible--the sheer quantity of his comments and the responses get everything derailed. Skim over them all? OK... what's left? Less and less, apparently, as time goes on, if the good commenters really *are* leaving.
*sigh*
I am uncomfortable with some of the criticism of Althouse, because it's her blog and she can put exactly as much effort into it as she wants to. We don't pay to go there, we are all volunteer readers, so I don't think it's fair to make demands beyond a certain point. You can only hope to beg and convince, but it looks like that's not working and people are giving up.
Well at this point I'm just repeating what's already been said.
Wow! See, it's my fault for not checking over here more often! I have my own thread!
I appreciate your comments everyone. I made my feelings known over there regarding the troll because, as Theo and others suggest, I think that the "Jeremy" entity is trying to destroy her blog. I also made the effort because I like the community over there and I like and respect Ann Althouse. I've hung out with her several times and she's even been to my house and studio. I started commenting over there and kept commenting during a difficult time in my life in 2006-7 and it helped me a lot by taking my mind off of things and encouraging me to write in a casual way at a venue where there wasn't a lot of pressure, i.e. if I screwed up or flipped out or said something dumb it wouldn't really matter.
But Althouse has made her feelings known, and it just strikes me as illogical to blame her loyal readers who do so much to add value to her blog rather than blame the people actually responsible for the disruption. I believe in the principle of free speech but I also believe that free speech has to be protected by the rule of law. This is consistent with a libertarian approach in that it ensures that one party's exercise of liberty does not ultimately infringe upon other parties exercise of liberty. In non-online society, this is often accomplished by the possibility of violence: people's behavior towards others and their interaction with others is tempered by the fact that if you cross a line, you are apt to get the crap knocked out of you. Of course there are sociopaths and psychopaths who are not tempered by this implicit threat of violence, and they are dealt with by the law when they disrupt the social space and threaten the life and liberty of others. In online society, there is not (necessarily) the threat of violence if the social order is disrupted. You can do and say things online that you couldn't and most likely wouldn't attempt in the non-online world, because you are reasonably immune from the threat of physical repercussions, especially if you take steps to ensure your anonymity. Therefore online communities require an extra measure of protection from disruption, as has been apparent from even the earliest online communities and forums. The "hands off" anarchist approach doesn't work online. Eventually the community that is not governed loses all of its value through the loss of interesting, literate and intelligent participants and either becomes a troll and spam haven or it dies. Communities needn't have someone to play policeman. Many online forums have systems whereby users can rate comments, which determines the placement and even visibility of every comment depending upon its rating. The user can set their threshold of badness tolerance and will only see comments at or above that ratings threshold. This is sort of the "free market" approach and tends to work pretty well provided the community is large enough, though it also tends toward a homogenous ideological community. Other systems allow users to "disappear" commenters they don't want to read. So even if "Jeremy" posts 482 comments in a thread (a not-unreasonable possibility), if I don't want to see them I don't have to. There is no weariness from scrolling through the dreck and it becomes much easier to "ignore the troll".
But Althouse doesn't want to deal with any of this. I've talked to her about it in person, but she likes the Blogger platform because she doesn't have to do anything, or pay anything, or worry about migrating her gigantic archive to another platform. The problem is, when you have an asset like her blog, you eventually can't allow it to crumble into pieces out of fear and inertia. It's obvious that her blog is more than just a place to play around. It's gotten her significant media attention, op-eds in major media outlets, lots of traffic from various high-volume websites, some money and now even a husband. It may have started as a simple little place, but it's now one of the most important things in her life. Yet she seems not to want to bother with keeping it a place people want to not only visit but hang around in.
In the end, perhaps her community of commenters isn't really that important. She has a partner in life now. She doesn't really need the blog as much as she did I think. And people primarily come there because of her and her writing, not because of her (dwindling) collection of excellent commenters.
And who knows, maybe she likes Jeremy because he generates a lot of hits and a lot of pageviews. That seems important to her, and certainly could be a source of revenue if advertisers notice.
Anyway, no one's really going to miss me there in the long run. Online communities change. I was once a prolific and well-known commenter at MetaFilter but I doubt most people there now would remember me. Vive memor leti ! Fugit hora...
I don't need stress or upset from my leisure activities. Commenting in the midst of the trolls was starting to turn me into a much more caustic person than I really want to be. I'm still caustic as hell, mind you, but there was a line that was crossed, and it's not a healthy one. Eventually one gets tired of being called fat and a cocksucker, even if both are happily true. It all has to do with the source, and I don't need or want to hear it from a community college teacher.
I hope you all don't mind if I pop in here from time to time. There's a little too much sports and a few too many bodacious tatas for my tastes, but Trooper and the rest of you make it all seem agreeable.
Ok, my response to Palladian's question of whether we'd like him here would be too obvious. :)
But I'll be sorry if you don't comment @ Althouse though, Palladian.
Ahhhh. I recognize that voice, Palladian.
That's the voice of experience.
BTDT, mah own self. Commenter rating systems can be excellent, especially if customizable.
One can't get too attached to the virtual, I'm afraid. Unless one has one's own server, like yours truly.
Is the fat man pulling his own finger? What's up with that?
Trooper York is no longer on Althouse's blog roll.
Sundries is, and it has been a cobweb site for months. What's up with that?
Trooper York is no longer on Althouse's blog roll.
The only person who never could seem to find his way over here from there was Garage Mahal.
Sundries is, and it has been a cobweb site for months. What's up with that?
You tell me, comrade Beria.
Hey Dust Bunny Queen, I would love to post one of your reciepes for one of the pasta categories
Sure thing Trooper. I posted a recipe on Recipe Junkie (Pasta Puttanesca) and a link to it on your post on the broccoli fettuchine clam recipie.
Nom nom nom. Pasta!!
Trooper York is no longer on Althouse's blog roll.
It's a Capricorn thing. Never piss us Capricorns off and especially not a female Capricorn. Fair warning :-D
Hey what was Forrest Gump's famous line:
"Petty is as Petty does."
Or maybe it was Stevie Nicks that said that after Tom Petty banged her and stopped taking her calls.
I may be slow, but I just now realized that a certain blogress's 7AM post is her response to Palladian's comment here.
Funny how that happens eh Watson?
Elementary my dear sir, elementary.
"certain blogress's 7AM"
Well, I'm no law professor so I don't feel bad for not knowing we have a right to be abusive in another persons blog. Glad she straightened that out.
I just read this entire thread and don't understand anything anyone is talking about.
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