Catholics have a very bad history with Jews as I am sure you know. The Inquisition. Pogroms. The record of Pope Pius in World War 2 is of course very troubling. The Church did a lot to help some of the Jews. But nowhere near enough. I have no right to question what they did. I don't know what I would have done. I most likely would have been weak. I would have acquiesced and done what I thought I had to do to survive. I would have denied him three times. Maybe twenty times three times. I am weak.
What Pope Pius did was bend with the strong wind. He made what accommodations he had to make with evil so that the Church could survive. He did what he thought he had to do and I am not a worthy judge. I don't know what pressure he was under or what he faced when dealing with such evil. Who am I to judge.
Is this Pope signaling that he is willing to do the same thing as Pius? Is it his plan to acquiesce with evil and accommodate it to find some illusory safety at the cost of the annihilation of the Jews?
I am a very strong defender of Israel and the Jewish people. Sometimes more than actual secular Jews. Which amazes me but what are you going to do. Some people are descendants of the ghetto fighters of Wausau. And some are descendants of the Kapos who helped put their people in the ovens.
If we don't stand up for the Jews and Israel we are on the road to destruction. The Jews are always the canary in the coal mine. The BDS movement on the left and on campus is just the beginning of a catastrophe if we let it go forward. The News Media, the Obama administration and now the Pope are all on the bandwagon. The stars are all aligning again. Evil is abroad and walking the land. Killing Jews. Killing Christians. Burning churches. Cutting off heads. We remember how this turned out the last time we had a complaisant pope and a lackadaisical ultra liberal president.
17 comments:
What Pope Pius did was bend with the strong wind. He made what accommodations he had to make with evil so that the Church could survive. He did what he thought he had to do and I am not a worthy judge. I don't know what pressure he was under or what he faced when dealing with such evil.
I am no one's judge either, but all said and done, this Pope today has none of the "strong wind" you cite, no gun to his head...he's just a political pontiff bending before those he should no be. I have no use for him now. With that said, I guess I am judgmental per se, but not on faith...what he's doing has nothing to do with faith.
I am afraid that you are right Ari,
You might do well to recall the comments of Simon (who still has a TY membership AFAIK). The link goes to TOP: link
chickelit ... you citation of Simon is appropriate. This Pope is not the church, but the church still will stand with or without him. I am remaining Catholic for that reason. My viewpoint of what a "Pontiff" is has changed, that is all...similar to how I do not consider Obama a representative of America, which will also stand in spite of him or, G-d forbid, Hillary, America will stand.
It is really the state of politics today that infuriates me as it approaches a soulless form.
REPOSTED TO CORRECT ERRORS
Look guys, you're letting the liberal media get your underwear twisted into a knoT by their inaccurate reporting of what the Pope says and does.
They report what they want him to say, not acTUally what he does say.
Here's an update from Weekly Standard:
"If anyone needs further evidence of why the news agencies often can’t be trusted to report accurately on Israel and the Palestinians, and why major news outlets such as the New York Times and the BBC should stop repeating agency copy without verifying it, here is an important example from this weekend.
According to Italian and Spanish news outlets and according to the Vatican’s own website, Pope Francis told Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas that he could be an angel of peace. “May you be an angel of peace,” he urged Abbas, effectively saying that if Abbas would take the decision to accept one of the peace offers that various Israeli prime ministers have made to him, or at least make a serious counter-offer, he could be an angel of peace. The pope did not say that Abbas – infamous for ordering the Munich Olympic massacre, among many other atrocities – was “an angel of peace.”
And yet the BBC and New York Times were among dozens of prominent news outlets that claimed he did.
The New York Times reports today (Page A11 under the headline: “At Vatican, Abbas Is Praised as ‘Angel of Peace’”):
“Mr. Abbas’s meeting with the pope ended with an exchange of gifts. Presenting Mr. Abbas with a medallion, the pope said it depicted an angel of peace ‘destroying the bad spirit of war.’ It was an appropriate gift, the pope added, since “you are an angel of peace.”
You can read the entire article here.
When you get all sideways about something the Pope is reported to have said, you are doing what the media wants: beginning to doubt your beliefs and the church. Don't fall for it.
Your concerns about appeasement are valid and justified, but the "angel" comment looks like it was taken out of context.
Michael I don't doubt my beliefs or my church. I doubt this Pope and if he believes in what the church has always stood for.
No one has ever been as mistranslated as this Pope. Time after time we are told that the media is lying or twisting what he is saying. Well they are not lying when they say he is recognizing the murderous Palestinian Jew killers.
The latest controversy is the new climate change encyclical. It is so radical that the Pope has to pull it back as it will tear the church apart.
This Pope seems to embrace every hair brained leftist meme in the world. It can't all be a mistranslation can it?
I feel that he is moving in the wrong direction in so many ways.
This embrace of the murderous barbarian Jew killing Palestinian terrorists is just the clearest signal of all.
But I bet the left wing and the New York Times are enjoying it.
Virgil Xenophon's comment on your I Don't Know What It Is With This Guy thread tells the whole story about this Pope. The marxists have made their long march through all the important high leverage institutions and the Catholic Church is one of them. That does not mean that all or even most priests are non-believers, but this Pope clearly is; what he believes in and pushes vigorously is materialist communism.
Not being Catholic, I'm not sure what power the Church actually has to influence politics and current events.
"How many division has the Pope?" Stalin supposedly asked.
As for the Catholic Church and the Jews, the Nazi's killed millions of Catholic Poles and I'm not too clear on what the Pope did for them. Or what the Pope did for all the Catholics/Christians killed by Lenin and Stalin before WW2.
So as a non-Catholic I find the whole thing confusing.
Haz ... I get your point, but I'm inclined to be like Trooper York. I am neither abandoning my new found faith nor blaming the "Church" per se. I am just not comfortable with the current Pontiff, although initially I thought he might be good. I may be wrong, new as I am to the Church, but I do not consider the Pontiff the dictator of Church theology.
Currently I have become v-e-r-y familiar with the Church's bureaucracy locally and they, the bureaucrats, are wrecking the Church's representation in my area. For them it is all about money not supporting parishes, quite the opposite in fact. They seem to dislike successful Pastors, and go to very aberrant means to pursue it. If they keep turning lights out in parishes, even those with no debt and self sustaining, including paying the fee the Archdiocese requests from collections and other income, soon enough there will be no lights for people like me to be attracted to If you want to know more about the local condition, email me. It has been ugly and is now in the hands of Cannon lawyers from the West Coast and 2 of my attorneys that I asked to intercede on behalf of my Pastor.
Politics and Faith are never good companions and history is legion with examples, including today. Obama's reluctance to cite one faith's renegades as murderers, who combine faith and violence, is an example. The Church's history when they've stepped deeply in to political matters has been no better over time.
That said, I really do get your point about media manipulation, and I respect it. I just wish this guy could gain better control of his mouth and political inclinations.
Haz ... I liked your post, but would like to also discuss my recent experiences with church bureaucrats, off line, with someone with your idealism vis a vis the Church. Email me if interested. Due to privacy issues it is not something I can relate openly on line...suffice it so say that it involves bureaucrats trying to bring criminal charges against a pastor whose worst offense is taking two on their on-their-knees parishes, mere ghosts, and making them viable and debt free. It seems to generate animosity for his success. Remember, I live in a Muslim neighborhood, where one parish is located, and vibrant, and attend services in a very near-by Mexican neighborhood (part of the cluster he was asked to try), where the response has been fantastic...even a full house for last Sunday's Mass.
Tropper York ... I'd also be interested in your views in the conundrum I have first hand experience with...given I am a relativity new Catholic...I might just learn something.
Sure thing Ari. Send the particulars via email.
Haz ... I'm not ignoring you, I just need a bit of time to compose a description that doesn't violate the confidence placed in me. I'll email soon.
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