Shame is a powerful thing. As a Catholic you get a lot of it. A young kid goes for his first confession and has to tell all of his sins. What kind of sins can you have when you are eight years old? But the nuns were there to tell you what a dirty filthy little beast you are and that you should be ashamed.
People love to shame you because you have nice things. That is the whole basis of the Democratic party. Shame on the rich. Shame on the middle class. Shame on citizens who think they can prevent illegals from getting all the benefits due a citizen of the United States.
Shame can affect the way you dress or speak or who you hang around with. Some people drop friends who got in trouble or did stupid shit like get a divorce or a drug arrest or a DUI. It can be a powerful weapon in the wrong hands.
Now shame is not as powerful as it used to be. In todays transient society people will accept you at face value because you are not part of a neighborhood where people know you since you were a kid. But if you live in one of the few areas where there is a vestige of that sensibility shame can hit you hard. It can be overpowering. When people who knew you since you were a kid turn their face it can be devastating. Some people can not face it. They would rather put a gun in their mouth. It ha opens to cops all the time.
Some people are totally shameless. We know them in real life and on the internet. They will say anything and do anything and not give a rats ass who it hurts. They are the truly dangerous ones. The limits that civil society used to impose no longer apply. They go along destroying stuff like a child without worrying about the consequences. Because there are none.
Except for those who can still feel shame.
30 comments:
I thought no more references to dirty ol' EBL?
Shame is the cousin of guilt. I find people who have feelings of guilt are often overwhelmed w/ that emotion. Conversely, those who could use some healthy guilt don't have a lick of it.
And, those who are overcome w/ guilt are often good people. Irony.
This wasn't about the evil blogger lady per we. Just a rumination about stuff I have been thinking about the past few days.
I am in the midst of a long conversation about Real Housewives and Reality TV where this topic is very relevant.
I can't take Inga at Turley's anymore and I don't go to TOP unless someone points to a thread where they are tweaking me or pulling up old threads that I commented on so I can delete.
Turley's would benefit if we would all send him emails re Inga.
The most terrible experience of shame I ever experienced was when I was somewhere between 9 and 11 - that's how bad my memory is, I can't remember my exact age when it happened - let's say I was 10. This was in Hebrew School. It's important to know that the Hebrew School teacher was also the principal of the public school I attended and a social acquaintance, an esteemed social acquaintance, of my parents. You might as well say he was, from my perspective, Moses. Anyway, I cheated. I cheated on a test. And he caught me cheating. Nothing was said. What I remembered was this tall grey figure of complete authority looking down at me as I sat at my desk. The Look. And in that look I writhed. Burned. I can still remember the physical sensation. Like a brand. I know he never spoke to anyone about what had happened because there were no outward ramifications. I never cheated again.
Great story, ricpic. You Tribesmen have shame and guilt down pat. My old man had the classic dago "look." It would stop you in your tracks.
There are looks, and there are looks. One that says "I see what you've done and I am deeply disappointed in your behavior" is different from one that conveys contempt, rage and worthlessness. While they both bring on the burn, the first one invites adaptive behavior.
From the Christian tradition, the one known as the Second Moses was capable of the first look, with enough effect to make a rough fisherman weep. But Peter said, "Man, I do not know what you are talking about." Immediately, while he was still speaking, a rooster crowed. The Lord turned and looked at Peter. And Peter remembered the word of the Lord, how He had told him, "Before a rooster crows today, you will deny Me three times." And he went out and wept bitterly.
Shame is one of those things-are-not-as-they-seem deals.
The etymology of the word refers to hiding or veiling:
"The word shame is derived from a Germanis root skam/skem (Old High German scama, Anglo Saxon scamu) with the meaning "sense of shame" being shamed, disgrace (Schande). It is traced back to the Indo-European root kam/kem to cover, to veil, to hide," The prefixed s (skam) adds the reflexive meaning--"to cover oneself." The notion of hiding is intrinsic to and inseparable from the concept of shame."
Shame, as defined by shame researcher B. Brown, is this: The intensely painful feeling or experience of believing we are flawed and therefore unworthy of acceptance and belonging. According to her, empathy is the antidote, with secrecy, silence, and judgment causing it to grow.
From Whitfield: "Shame is universal to the human condition. It's only healthy form is humility...If we don't work through it and then let go of it, shame tends to accumulate and often burdens us more over time, until we become its victim. In addition to feeling defective or inadequate, shame makes us believe others can see through our facade, and into our defectiveness. Shame feels hopeless; that no matter what we do, we cannot correct it. With shame we feel isolated and lonely, as though we are the only one who has it. While we often keep it buried, out of our conscious awareness, it still shows up... Not only do we try to block it out, we project it on to others as anger, resentment, contempt, rage, attack, blame, control..."
Mama, You are so wise. The "look" of my old man was the former. He was a positive man w/ a persona that created an atmosphere where you never wanted to disappoint him. Now, he never spoke of "winning" but always of "trying." He encouraged healthy competition. I was a very good athlete, as was my brother. Although we both played several sports, my best was baseball, my brother's football. He would go w/o sleep[he worked all 3 factory shifts] to see his kids games. My brother and I had many victories, but some tough losses. The look never appeared during losses. Actually, it never appeared for me in sports. I most remember it appearing when I would be mean or unkind to someone. It would appear @ the dinner table. My father knew his kids were not going to be blue collar and taught us all how to eat properly. To this day it sticks. I did a surveillance just a year or so ago of a CEO who was about to be canned by my client. I followed the guy to a restaurant. My report noted the CEO ate like a truck driver. My client was an Italian and he understood perfectly what I meant and was conveying. He came from the northeast and had the same blue collar, nurturing father.
The other "look" was part of a coaches repertoire I had for football. I got that "look" often when I would not go full speed in practice against my teammates. I was wrong. In football, most practices you go 1/2 or 3/4 speed in practice scrimmages. But, sometimes "full speed" was bellowed. I simply would not. I was given the look, I was verbally berated, I was benched for a game. The asst. coach who was the offensive backfield coach was my strong ally. I was an offensive tackle. I heard him and the head coach get into a heated argument. The asst. making the point, that I was the best pass protector in the games, and the second best run blocker. The backfield coach also had the good "look." The fact that he would stand up for me made me block just a little bit better during games. I don't think that was his primary motivation for having my back. But, that was one of the most valuable lessons I learned and took into my coaching of baseball for 30 years.
You need to start a blog, Mama. You have too much wisdom to just comment.
Shame is an interesting topic to me. Today it has been stood on it's head.
I post on a board that doesn't allow "slut shaming." You know.....calling out a bimbo for acting like a whore.
Shame is only reserved for white men who have to apologize for every bad thing that ever happened.
Fuck that noise.
Shame is only reserved for white men...
White men are in a difficult position in today's culture, but they are not without resource.
Finding a way to creatively function, coach and challenge others rather than engage in their drama is one way out.
There is tremendous power in authenticity. Power that cannot be denied or contained, even by death.
Those were good stories ND, adding to ricpic's, revealing the power of personal story and the effect of values held and conveyed by others.
It is tough times for white/males. But, I was raised to limit pity parties to very short, and then buck up.
It is not a call for a pity party.
It is a call for a fuck you party.
Fuck if they can't take a joke.
For instance Leisure Suit Larry showed up at Lem's to throw some shame around.
Like old times.
That is fuck em if they can't take a joke.
I have other projects right now.
I am trying to get them to set up a Munster thread at Previously TV so I can post some "Marilyn's Diary" stuff there. I have to see how far I can go before they ban me.
There is tremendous power in authenticity. Power that cannot be denied or contained, even by death.
That is a gem of wisdom, MamaM. Lem should use that in his masthead.
No one can shame you, unless you let them.
It's a violation of the social contract to shame someone who doesn't deserve it.
It's a violation of the social contract not to act ashamed when appropriate.
Pretty soon, no social contract.
And here we are.
Now our buddy Leisure Suit Larry shows up at Lems throwing shade and trying to shame me for busting on Madison.
Of course it turns out that TOP set up a new subscription fund raising thing today.
Some people are so predictable.
Call it a tip jar, because that's what it is currently set up to be, with those donating providing something extra that has nothing to do with subscription but answers the questions: Do you like me??? Am I worth paying for??? Whose* my daddy???
I don't object to people monetizing their blogs. Nor do I object to commercials on TV.
Hey I don't care either.
I just think that was the reason for his visit. Not to defend the good name of Madison.
Everyday I hear someone or other who hates NYC and wants it to sink into the harbor. So to knock Madison is no big deal in my book.
Everyday I hear someone or other who hates NYC and wants it to sink into the harbor. So to knock Madison is no big deal in my book.
You're too right but still wrong.
It's not being presented as monitizing the blog, chickelit. There's nothing wrong with asking for or requiring a fee. This new venture is being billed as a subscription when it amounts to giving money in return for a "good feeling". That's a different transaction.
I wonder if Meade knows she's trading money for "good feelings"?
I wonder if Meade knows she's trading money for "good feelings"?
Careful, lest you be accused of vileness by he who must accuse.
I am comfortable for saying what I think here...thank you Trooper.
Epistle warning:
I no longer believe we, as a nation, can survive another 1.5+ years of this administrations. Lying has become endemic, "official" law breaking is endemic, cabinet secretaries lie with impunity, Congressional citations are ignored, censures are ignored, the DOJ prosecutes no one but guys like Gen Petraeus, and the Attorney General in this morning newscasts says he will use "all of his powers" (like just what does he think those are?) and says that includes "dismantling" the Ferguson Police Department....which is NOT under the direct legal authority of DOJ. Short of declaration of Martial Law, the feds have no direct executive control of local police, sheriffs, or state police...under martial law, it is DOD who runs things....Detroit has been through that too.
Our nation of laws is crumbling before our eyes. Some of us, such as residents or Newark NJ or Detroit MI know what the federal oversight process is for local police and sheriff's departments...they REQUIRE a court order, sought by DOJ when appropriate, by due process (as the plaintiff), but NOT administered by DOJ, but by a court appointed 3rd party overseer who reports to the judge, not DOJ....who retains a observer role only.
Detroit's federal oversight court order was removed in August 2014 after several years of Federal Courtoversight, and some scandals even with the overseers....which the court acted to remedy. Yet today we have an idiot AG talking about dismantling a PD....rather than fixing it.
Detroit's oversight has succeeded and if I an anxious about anything it is that crap like Ferguson MO this morning and Holder's remarks yesterday, plus the Madison WI dust up (only "whiter" town I know of, and I have lived in Madison, would be in Siberia)....may go in to the trash due to incitement by federal officials overstepping and the usual race baiter crews. It concerns me because my daughter moved in to the downtown city core, now renovated extensively, mostly by private investment, 3+ years ago and likes it as it is now.
That could change overnight based upon my experience in 1967 living there. There are remaining ordinary black families and Hispanic families living in the city now who have a vested interest in normalcy and civil obedience. I pass them every day across town.
This progress can be ruined by motor mouth AG's and race hustlers and I'm very likely to hate them for it. I do not handle "hate" well...and up to now I hate no one, but I have in the distant past. By living around the world I had to learn what this administration can't....that talk matters little, actions, under the law, are what invigorate changes.
Great comment, Ari. I socialize w/ hard working black people. They are disgusted w/ the pandering, enabling and condescension of this administration and white guilt people. They know poor black folk need tough love. But, Al Sharpton is the WH go to guy in all race matters. New slogan, "Al Sharpton matters."
It smells like an old farm out house in here. What's zup wit dat?
Oh, wait, I see somebody mentioned the TOP toad on this thread :-(
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