I emailed Lem about them and he closed down the thread. Unfortunate but perhaps necessary. You see I think Lem didn't have time to moderate and pick and choose what to delete. Nor should he have to do so. I think most of us managed to ignore Larry despite some pretty personal nonsense. I want to support Lem in closing down this thread. There will be plenty of other instances where the talk can continue. This thread was going no where fast. No where good. But sometimes enough is enough.
Lem's goal is to keep it civil. I want to strive to help him do that. My natural reaction is like Nick's or Ari's or Shouting to bitch slap that fucker but I want to rise above it if I can. I hope we all can.
It is a work in progress.
191 comments:
What is going on with Meade? He is nuts and persistently so. He's everywhere on Lem's and making it a point to disrupt every thread.
For one I will go along with whatever Trooper asks. Allowing Meade to win in his game of crazy next would be a shame.
I just saw Mike Spann's children on television, the first I've watched in a week. The guy who orchestrated the riot at Qala-i-Jangi that got Marine and CIA officer Spann killed, the first in Afghanistan, was one of the 5 Taliban released.
Given the state of the world, I do not care what Meade does. Or what happens to him. Given the state of the ME and he's jabbering on about the Pope, of whom he knows nothing, tells me the man is unwrapped and out of his mind.
Bless you and rest in peace, Johnny Michael Spann.
Ari, Just go look what a fucking depressing wasteland TOP is. It is envy. I learned from investigating people for decades, it almost always comes down to the 7 Deadly Sins.
Trooper, Way to hang tough.
LSL wants to bring Lem's blog down. That, and he's an insufferable jerk. Many of the local blogs in Madison have either blocked him, or openly ridicule him. I think what we see on Lem's is what LSL truly is.
TOP remains a cesspool.
We just have to deal with it. I think the current strategy has a good shot of working. If Michael and Chickie and Darcy just delete him out of hand and Lem shuts down his threads when they devolve we have the best of both worlds. Several threads where he does not appear and a place for him to show his ass as he did on the Pope thread.
He doesn't appear much on Chips threads as the subjects are so beyond his keen that he has nothing to say. Plus I think they want to lure Chip back to TOP so they are handling him with kid gloves.
By the way this photo comes from Garage Mahal's private collection.
@Troop/
You're damn right they want Chip back at TOP. His photo annotations were a BIG feature of Anns topic heading schtick..
Yeah, C.Ahoy's continued excellent posting at Lem's is a giant "fuck you" to TOP.
He's the anti-Hunt.
They are pretty transparent aren't they?
You can't hide who you are forever.
Crack is showing a whole new generation of commenters at TOP what those two are all about.
I think Chip Ahoy in his own quirky way is really sticking it to them. By utilizing his talent and being appreciated for it in a way it was never appreciated over at TOP.
But then Michael H vinegary wisdom, Darcy's sweet nature, Chickie's inventive and humor and Synova's good common sense are all ornaments to Lem's joint. Lem holds it all together with his generosity and kindness. He is not perfect but then none of us are.
I happened to drive by TOP tonight and whaddaya know--right there, in a post about herself being (mis)quoted but not linked by El Rushbo---SWMNBN wrote:
I want the traffic
I mean, we all knew that, despite the denials, but still it was arresting to see her admit it.
The crabs make an unsettling site when they are in the bucket.
Talk about pompous? I mean Larry called me pompous but when you look up pompous in the dictionary you find her photo.
There is no there there. So to speak.
Without the links from Insty it would shrivel up. It is on the way to that soon. They papered over the big fight last time but the next one will be enough to blow it up.
I agree with all your comments. I can only guess it is a matter of time till Ann throws Larry out on his ass. Because lets face it, he is like a dog you get from the pound that is never right in the head. The type that pees all over the carpets, bites at people without warning, and eats its own shit.
Or she's turned on by it.
I vow not to respond to the SOB!
Don't need that shit.
ST, You're doing great. We ALL empathize w/ you in having a moment of anger. You being strong in the face of his assholism is one of the keys in our game plan. Keep up the GREAT work. I have bitten my tongue until it bleeds. Vent over here.
I'm a keep it simple guy. Their attraction is booze and narcissism. They have a dysfunctional, insular relationship.
The key to understanding them are those insipid videos they used to post as they waxed poetic driving in the car. Have you noticed they stopped? They had a moment of clarity and self awareness! I forced myself to watch those videos because they were the Rosetta Stones.
Whoa! I just suckered Meade to a Chip Ahoy thread. All I did was truthfully compliment Chip...and the envious little toad just had to climb up on that....squealing "Hey, look at ME!"
Something is seriously wrong with Merde. He is a toxic little fuck. But I have to imagine he is wearing thin on Althouse (who is not exactly Ms. Empathy).
I'm a keep it simple guy. Their attraction is booze and narcissism. They have a dysfunctional, insular relationship.
It is "Who's Afraid of Virginia Wolfe" but with double doses of stupidity and banality.
Woolf, my bad!
...the usual solution is just ask (Lem ask) Meade not to post on your blog if you don't think it's good for the blog. Say you're looking for a different kind of insight in comments...It works if the commenter has any character. Give it a try.
What happened with this suggestion? Was it considered? Was it tried?
MomaM....don't know if it has been tried at Lem's by Lem...however I've noticed at least a couple of the "masthead" posters ask him to do just that. To no effect.
I doubt Meade would listen, hell, he barely reads the thread topics or any comment over 2 lines long comments, he just goes off on his demented little tangents.
Witness Meade's "lecture" to me today on the Chip Ahoy thread about anger and frustration...this from the guy who went batty ass nuts over a few dollars he felt he was deprived of, by design, a year ago. No anger or frustration there, eh?
BTW, he was reimbursed in full, but acknowledged nothing, never mind that the subject of his hissy fit has gone on to do beautiful work for me and at least one other commenter here. In fact is still doing commissions as we speak for a couple of us.
How someone treats a man or woman when they are down speaks loudly about their character. In Meade's case, he has none...his affection is limited to himself.
For the record, although I will not reveal who or when, I've assisted others here and elsewhere within the scope of my ability, very limited, and I know that some others here have as well. One of them would surprise everyone given his behavior of late.
10 years ago it was "just the Internet" in Meade's words. Today is a connection between real people with real feelings and real hearts that hurt, and you can communicate as never before. Never mind about 80% of our reliable news now comes over the Internet.
I am a silly old man, perhaps, but I'd welcome the chance to meet anyone on this board. I am not done learning. And Trooper didn't have to greet a former harsh critic if he didn't think there was some reason to do so.
Ari I welcomed you because you showed what kind of man you are in the incident you refer to in your post. Lots of people did. That was the one that separated the people you want to know from the poseurs. I don't have to agree with you for you to post here. That's why I welcomed Ritmo and phx. But you have to be a decent human being. The Evil Blogger Lady, Lawnboy and their minions like Inga, Titus,Crack and Freeman Hunt simply are not.
Meade would never honor that request MamaM. He doesn't do it in Michaels posts. So there is no reasonable expectation that he will anywhere else.
During the early months of Lem's blog Meade promised several time that he'd stop commenting if others stopped mentioning him and Althouse.
We did, and he didn't stop commenting. He's not a man of good character who keeps his word.
Just so.
TOP was something once, wasn't it?
I loved Chip's stuff, and of course Sir Archy and the blogging cockroach.
Sic transit gloria mundi virtuali.
I probably got that declension wrong. But you get the idea.
Hey she who can't be named is "ol dirty EBL!"
Because I am her doppelganger, that makes me the opposite of her!
Whatever his other shortfalls may be, Rh was on the money with this one. He specified Lem as the one who needs to do the asking, and Lem is the one who needs to do so, regardless of how lacking in honor Meade may be or what his previous behavior pattern has been.
If Lem asks him to stop and Meade says no, doesn't answer, and/or continues to comment in the same vein as before, then Lem can take the next next step and neutrally advise his readers of what's transpired. People will stand behind that kind of courtesy and directness from Lem, and they will not tolerate dismissal from Meade as an acceptable response.
The ball is in Lem's court. I encourage him to make the request and see what transpires or falls out.
Guessing ahead of time what Meade will do, (even if there is every likelihood he will do it)shuts down the process that needs to happen on Lem's end if he is to move forward.
Mama, They are manipulating, Lem, and possibly worse.
Damnit...I am screwing around with Meade again. I feel like the guy cowboy in the sheepherder movie...he's so damn irritating he's "hard to quit."
Nick....who ever said it a while back that Ann Althouse and Meade think of Lem's as their personal paddock for the unruly, where they can drop in sand say anything, but they get to "moderate" (censor) their newly refined little play pen....well that person was right.
It is not a full day for either of them without belittling somebody.
MamaM is right.
It's up to Lem to decide what's gonna happen at his blog. He seems to think that generic calls for "civility" will suffice.
He is wrong, but he seems to be in SWMNBN's thrall.
Too bad Larry's so irresistible to people. "Ignore" was working well for a little while.
You are right Chip S....I will go back to ignoring him and my use of "TILT". Ignoring him is the only thing that will work, coupled with some judicious deletions by posters.
As I said above, at times I just can't resist. In the future I will.
His Palin snark today was obvious bait. I was sorry to see AllenS take it.
Every bit of chum Larry tosses out shows that he's deeply troubled. EBL isn't happy about the state of her blog, and she's probably taking out her frustrations on him.
PaddyO's query for Larry today indicated that he hasn't yet reached the conclusion I have, wh. Is that commenters are props for her little show, and nothing else.
It seems to me that she's replying more to comments now that she can hold off on posting them until she's been able to formulate a rejoinder. Undated commenters are unreliable as props.
"Ungated", not "undated". Fuck off, autocorrect.
Mama, They are manipulating, Lem, and possibly worse.
They are, ND, and that's sick. From my point of observation, Lem's held them in respect for a long time, as long as I've known him at Althouse.
That's why I'd like to see him respect himself (and his blog) as much as he respects others, which is the flip side version of the 2nd Great Commandment.
Lem oughta go back and read what both EBL and LSL said about the old TOP commentariat. In my world, respect is a two-way thing.
An elder reminded me if a Polish proverb today.
Not my monkey, not my circus.
I think that describes how I feel about LSL and his wife's blog.
We're having pierogi's amd Musa'a Albanian Sausage for dinner tonight. The past 20 years or so we have had an influx of Macedonians and Albanians. The Macedonians own all the diners and pass themselves off as Greeks. The Albanians have opened a couple pizza joints, passing as dagos.
Maybe Lem allows it to continue because he likes the traffic?
Nick - I was motorcycling yesterday and I stopped at the Villa Tap near Truax for lunch.
I asked the bartender "Anyone seen Spinelli?"
A guy with two women wen out the back door and everyone else got really quiet.
We really should screenshot his posts. He has appeared to fantasize about Trooper dying often. It's minimally creepy and (I think) mildly threatening.
I do recall her mentioning how Meade liked to mix things up over at Isthmus and other Madison publications. Those are the ones that I think Michael noted have mostly banned him now. As far as I can tell, he is basically ol dirty EBL's cabana boy. How pathetic is that?
FWIW I've been amazed/perplexed at the change in Freeman Hunt. Circa 2008 when I hit the blogging world full time after Katrina she seemed quite witty, insightful and fair-minded, and was not one to get down in the trenches of personal invective/character assassination, but as of late she seems a changed person since the AA-inspired "great rupture" at TOP. She initially joined the crowd at Lems, but seemingly left abruptly. Anyone any insights? Reasons? Have I missed something?
Hey, we could all create dog-themed identities and comment on his dog photo blog.
Heh.
@virgil
I have a theory on that. I think the Meades have been very kind to her as far as commenting goes. I think the personal insults toward them in the comments offend her. I don't know why the personal insults coming from them don't seem to offend her, but my guess/theory is that she feels on balance the Meades take more abuse.
I like her. I don't imagine she's reading much at Lem's these days, so she probably doesn't see the whole picture. Giving her the benefit of doubt.
I think Freeman has been kept very busy by homeschooling her two older kids, and giving birth recently to a third child.
I remember Freem as being one of the funniest and wittiest commenters at original recipe Althouse. Ditto Ruth Anne Adams, dearly missed here and elsewhere.
I didn't know she had another baby! Yeah, she's got to be crazy busy.
I miss Ruth Anne too. I hope all is well with her. She used to pop in at least occasionally.
And I'll add Pete Terranova to that list. Funny, pleasant guy. I'm glad that I can stay in touch with him on Twitter, and wish that he'd stop by Lem's once in a while.
I do recall her mentioning how Meade liked to mix things up over at Isthmus...
Mentioned in a way that sounded like approval or pride over his tenacity and bad boy behavior. Like he was really jerking them off to her satisfaction.
Speaking of witty (and insightful) guys who left TOP and have never re-appeared, I miss old "CokeTown" as well hope he is not RIP..
Oh yeah, MamaM. They are two peas in a pod. I agree with those who believe that they both post at Lem's under Meade's name. She approves.
Darn...there are more missing than I realized. Bissage. CodyJarrett. CokeTown are just the tip of the iceberg, probably.
That Bissage mystery still bothers me.
Haz, Let me know when you're in town, I would love to get together. I'm headed up to the Cities tomorrow. Then planning on going to North Dakota. That will be my 47th state visited. I seldom get your way but promise I'll let you know if I do.
It really is a shame how every thread has to be polluted these days. It is coming up on the one year anniversary and it is clear that this is a plot to get Lem to close down. They want a few handpicked people to come back to kiss their ass.
Some are stupid enough to go back there and take the bait. They should take that discussion back there. Oh it is moderated. Nevermind.
The plot won't work. And they know it. That's why they're getting hysterical.
He's Baldrick to her Blackadder.
I would say Kukla, Fran and Ollie, but that is more like Trooper's place!
Some are stupid enough to go back there and take the bait. They should take that discussion back there. Oh it is moderated. Nevermind.
Meade lets through only part of what I write on TOP.
OT...but since the IRS data loss is in the news, I figured lets play the game and see if I can back up my claims....
Just for shits & giggles I have gone back in to my "archives" for old files...in this case property records for which I was responsible. Please note the "update" date from the database records...directly from the raw Oracle tables. [I have removed any information (most) that would be sensitive]:
INV_SCAN_DATE INV_LOC INV_ROOM_NO INV_READ_CODE INV_UPDATE_ID 00747 027
INV_UPDATE_DATE 12/22/1994
Do I believe the IRS "lost" anything...no I don't and it is one thing I am relatively expert about.
I can do the same for emails vis a vis the same time period...it is just more work. The simple record search I just did was easy....and it will match exactly that record in the US Army DB.
Okay, back to the dead Cardinal in the road :-)
I don't know who's still around, but I know of a few I haven't seen in ages:
(the late, lamented) Hector Owen
Melinda (last seen in 2012)
SGT Ted
Tibore
dax
Joan (still blogging!)
Jeff with one "f" (has a radio show, I think)
JohnAnnArbor
PatCA
Theobromophile (remember her?)
Kirby Olson
terrance
a variety of guys named "steve"
Bilby
Fen
A variety of leftist trolls, like mal and leftyjohn and The Exalted who may all have been the same dude
Maxine
Before Father Fox there was Mark Daniels, a Lutheran minister
knox, sometimes knoxgirl, sometimes knoxwhirled (I miss her; she used to comment on my blog)
Eli Blake (is he still around? I recall him as a lefty you could disagree with)
Paco Wove
John Stodder
The Drill SGT (who may have also been SGT Ted, unless it's standard to capitalize SGT)
Jennifer
EnigmatiCore
Hoosier Daddy
rightwingprof
Beth (we mix it up on Twitter)
former law student
Richard Fagin
Richard Dolan (no relation, troop?)
John Lynch
peter hoh
And the list goes on (and on and on and on, Steve Perry style). And I assume some of these people are still around but I never see them since I don't go to Althouse (and rarely go to Lem's).
I don't know who's still around, but I know of a few I haven't seen in ages:
(the late, lamented) Hector Owen
Melinda (last seen in 2012)
SGT Ted
Tibore
dax
Joan (still blogging!)
Jeff with one "f" (has a radio show, I think)
JohnAnnArbor
PatCA
Theobromophile (remember her?)
Kirby Olson
terrance
a variety of guys named "steve"
Bilby
Fen
A variety of leftist trolls, like mal and leftyjohn and The Exalted who may all have been the same dude
Maxine
Before Father Fox there was Mark Daniels, a Lutheran minister
knox, sometimes knoxgirl, sometimes knoxwhirled (I miss her; she used to comment on my blog)
Eli Blake (is he still around? I recall him as a lefty you could disagree with)
Paco Wove
John Stodder
The Drill SGT (who may have also been SGT Ted, unless it's standard to capitalize SGT)
Jennifer
EnigmatiCore
Hoosier Daddy
rightwingprof
Beth (we mix it up on Twitter)
former law student
Richard Fagin
Richard Dolan (no relation, troop?)
John Lynch
peter hoh
And the list goes on (and on and on and on, Steve Perry style). And I assume some of these people are still around but I never see them since I don't go to Althouse (and rarely go to Lem's).
I don't know who's still around, but I know of a few I haven't seen in ages:
(the late, lamented) Hector Owen
Melinda (last seen in 2012)
SGT Ted
Tibore
dax
Joan (still blogging!)
Jeff with one "f" (has a radio show, I think)
JohnAnnArbor
PatCA
Theobromophile (remember her?)
Kirby Olson
terrance
a variety of guys named "steve"
Bilby
Fen
A variety of leftist trolls, like mal and leftyjohn and The Exalted who may all have been the same dude
Maxine
Before Father Fox there was Mark Daniels, a Lutheran minister
knox, sometimes knoxgirl, sometimes knoxwhirled (I miss her; she used to comment on my blog)
Eli Blake (is he still around? I recall him as a lefty you could disagree with)
Paco Wove
John Stodder
The Drill SGT (who may have also been SGT Ted, unless it's standard to capitalize SGT)
Jennifer
EnigmatiCore
Hoosier Daddy
rightwingprof
Beth (we mix it up on Twitter)
former law student
Richard Fagin
Richard Dolan (no relation, troop?)
John Lynch
peter hoh
And the list goes on (and on and on and on, Steve Perry style). And I assume some of these people are still around but I never see them since I don't go to Althouse (and rarely go to Lem's).
vbspurs!
Who vanished from Twitter this January, in a mystery much like Bissage. She promised she'd be back the next week, but has not been back in six months.
That's why they're "virtual" friends, I guess.
vbspurs not on twitter???
Inconceivable!
A few I can think of…
Joanna
Lyssa
leslyn
scott m.
and, of course, yashu.
I wish paul zrimsek would comment at Lem's, so I wouldn't have to peruse TOP from time to time to read his stuff.
Right?
She had THREE accounts because she'd end up hitting whatever barrier Twitter has for people who tweet like maniacs (never been anywhere near it, myself).
And sometimes she'd hit it on ALL THREE ACCOUNTS!
Now, *poof*. She got less regular after her father passed, and I just worry that something bad happened to her.
I think SgtTed still comments at TOP, although irregularly.
vbspurs last comment, I think, was that she had pneumonia and was going into a hospital. Sometimes I think that the person playing that role just got tired of the effort it took to keep the story moving.
You folks are so good w/ names. I suck. I'm like a facial recognition system, but I can't remember my kids names.
I like to think she fell madly in love and hasn't any time for the net.
Chip--
That was the hints I had gotten prior to the first extended absence. I hope that's true, too.
Spinelli--
I'm lucky if I can remember my kids' faces.
I probably shouldn't go looking.
Last time I looked for a girl I thought might have died, she turned out to be...not a girl...
@virgil xenophon:
Regarding Freeman Hunt...I have an enormous amount of respect for her. Blake might recall that I tweeted "You are the future of the nation" or some such after her last son was born a while back. My meaning was that she was doing the hard work of raising the next generation.
But my opinion took a real hit when she so clearly defended Crack's shtick as some sort of praiseworthy art: (link to Lem). Such was my respect for her integrity that I thought surely there was some sort of collusion going on between her, Crack, and the Althouses. I mean, what else is one to think?
Chip S .... I periodically contact "Leslyn" because she's someone I have things in common with. I like her. Not the least being her biting criticism of my pistol shooting skills now and then. A cool lady if I may say so. Last time I heard her opinion about TOP it was that the place was "too mean" and she had better things to occupy her time.
Just sent her an email to ask if she's good and WTF...where are you?
Say hi for me, if you will, Ari.
Shit! I never make my point clear. The table I posted a snippet of at 10:06 PM was scanned in Sep 2005, for records from FY 1994. 10+ years...not lost, hello?
@blake:
SGT Ted, Jeff with one "f", Kirby Olson, Fen,
John Stodder, The Drill SGT, Richard Dolan, and John Lynch have all recently been on Althouse.
peter hoh used to comment here even after it went private. I assume he still reads?
Victoria never answered my last DM. I still think about her often and wonder where she went.
CL--
I always had the same good feelings about Freeman.
I prefer to not read anything that would change that.
Chip S...believe it or not, I just did cite you by nickname in my email to her. I hope I will hear back, as I usually do, in a day or two. I did give her the URL for Lem's place. I'll be happy to give the link to your place if you say okay?
It's not "just the Internet" anymore...it is real people with real feelings and real intellects who are enabled to seek each other's company.
Without the new access we'll all perish. As I have said before, there is no one on this board I'd not be delighted to meet.
I keep in touch with members of an old Vietnam internet "rat line" for the simple reason that we can today. These are men I can never forget, and do not want to either.
With what I just said, let it be known that I am referring to the people that Trooper York as opened the door to...because I suspect his judgment is better than mine.
Leslyn is my bride's name. It is VERY uncommon. Odd that there are 2 in such small circles.
@Ari, she'd be a welcome visitor at my site. Not that I think it'd be to her taste, of course.
So this where you guys been ;)
It's safe here... I have to grant you guys that.
You are always welcome here Lem. I admire your patience even when I lose patience with it.
You are a good man.
Some problems are not fixable.
Life is too short for petty bullshit.
I'm still missing The Concrete Dog. It's been three years since he last barked and presumably turned back to stone. If it was ricpic who was holding that particular leash, he deserves a kick in the shins for breaking my heart. I liked that dog.
Chip S....just heard from Leslyn. She's had some interferences in her life involving knee surgery, etc., plus increased caution not to provoke the USMC. I gave her your website link and told her you'd welcome her. Leslyn can be contrary, but always speaks from the heart. It is he endearing feature.
Since LSL has way too much time on his hands, I suggest we keep him busy at his home paddock by spamming their inbox with tons of comments on every thread.
That will give him something to do. Moderate THESE bozo.
It is kind of sad that Lem has to come here to find a "safe" place.
I am trying a different mode of attack today.
Ari, thx. Leslyn was the coolest lib @ TOP.
Troop, ya big lug, why let Larry get under your skin? He ain't saying anything that hasn't been said a million times before.
Palin. The Church. I'll say this for him--he knows where the hot buttons are.
"Is that commenters are props for her little show, and nothing else."
I'm not disagreeing with this. More that something changed, and I thought I'd see how it got discussed in a different environment.
As many have noted it went from being a real salon to something else, and I increasingly see that something else as more of an extension of her classroom.
So her commenters went from being treated like interesting compatriots to unruly students, with the sometimes demeaning and dismissive pattern. Meanwhile, there's no consistency in her whims. So it's always walking on
Meade serves a the TA. And an increasing capacity to admit being wrong or mistaken in analysis or interpretation is adding to the pressure.
Ego? Insecurity? Exhaustion?
I don't tend to take things personally, but that response to both Lem and me just seemed strange, especially given how there's no consistency with the explanation.
"Don't talk about our personal lives! The ones that got featured in the NY Times!"
"Don't talk about commenting! Except when I bring it up again and again!"
I'm still not convinced they're anti-religion, but do have that intellectual sparring tendency that's consistent with internal faith wrestling. Althouse is God-haunted. Which can lead to strange reactions.
I will admit that I really admire Sixty Grit. He really knows how to hate and when he turns on you he really goes for the jugular.
Don't know what he has against widows though?
I had to admit I was a little uncomfortable in some of his attacks when he was on my side so I am glad he is bringing that style to the other side.
It was kind of like having Conrad Dobler or Jack Tatum or Roger Clemens's on your team. They can help you win but you kinda don't like the way they go about it. I have tendencies to be very nasty myself and am trying to correct that if I can.
I am adding Sixty to my do not respond to list. Just so you know why I am not answering him.
No good will come of it.
PaddyO, I started cutting and pasting the best lines in your comment, but then realized that I was gonna hafta repost the whole thing.
My fave, by a whisker:
"Don't talk about our personal lives! The ones that got featured in the NY Times!"
I had to admit I was a little uncomfortable in some of his attacks when he was on my side so I am glad he is bringing that style to the other side.
I'm not sure which new alliance is more surprising or more troubling: Iran & Iraq or LSL & 60G.
Since LSL has way too much time on his hands, I suggest we keep him busy at his home paddock by spamming their inbox with tons of comments on every thread.
If Anonymous took a disliking to them, they'd be lucky if they had a website when it was all over.
What the heck is wrong with you guys?
You are engaging with Meade when you should know better. This is not new ground; we've been over this before.
And fighting amongst yourselves now? Enough, aready. Knock it off.
Michael I am trying to not engage with Meade by not directly answering him. Instead I make statements regarding the general situation and he can say what he wants. But I don't think we can let what he does stand unanswered. Not directly responded to but also not unanswered.
Much like your comment in the thread.
Plus I didn't like leaving Pogo hanging alone on the limb while he is being attacked.
Sixty is a different kettle of fish. He took offense to a remark I made about "dirty prods" and no apology will suffice. He demanded to be removed from this blog and I am sure will be unremittingly nasty for the foreseeable future regardless of whether or not lawnboy is involved.
As I said I admire Sixty's ability to hate. I have the same tendencies and would and have been just as nasty and unremitting in my attacks in the past. I am trying to be better than that so I do not plan to respond to him either.
I always looked at Sixty as my Bad Angel and Darcy as my Good Angel when I am commenting. They are the two extremes. I am trying to be a better person so I am not going to get into it with Sixty.
Responding to vile posts does nothing more than give him reason to perpetuate the vileness. It puts you in defensive mode.
If you need to engage, go on the offense. Go to his dog blog and comment. Go to the Isthmus. Flood his wife's inbox with comments.
Well I try to respond by changing the direction of the conversation without reference him directly. If his stuff just sits there unopposed then it will have the effect of destroying Lem's blog. X-Ray kind of made that point yesterday and I have to say it gave me pause.
I confess I don't know what is the best balance to strike. We can't flee every time he chimes in on a post and makes outrageous statements. Otherwise I would be confined to your posts where you delete him out of hand.
Which might be the solution. I don't know.
This is a lot of stress over simply choosing a different venue with the ability to lock people out.
The example was Chip's post. Apolitical and a cooking discussion.
Michael H made a simple statement. An allusion without any specifity. I agreed very briefly. It then spiraled out of control.
What is to be done in a case like that? I am open to suggestions. I want to come up with an effective response.
I know blake. But the thing is I don't think we want to abandon Lem's place as a free and open place without limits. At least I don't.
I think it is important to not just quit. Which I admit is very tempting and the easiest thing to do.
I could just post here and leave it at that. Maybe that is the best thing to do.
My apologies for fucking up over at Lem's.
Sometimes I just gotta whip open a whole can of dumbass
...all over myself.
@Paddy O:
Now that's funny!
Well, I'm very sorry that Sixty took umbrage and is now an enemy of Trooper. I liked his comments.
As to Meade, I try not to respond directly to him or even address the points he makes since most of those comments are meant to distract and derail the topic. If we take up discussing his off topic comments with him, we are playing into his hand. If the topics introduced by LSL are relevant to the post, then we should just ignore his input and discuss amongst ourselves.
Addressing him directly is also giving him what he wants.
He is like a toddler. All self centered, self indulgent, throwing tantrums and attempting to get his way through coercion and intimidation. Maybe his momma should give him a good spanking :-)
There are lots of things I miss about TOP, mostly other people.
I agree with Aridog that'Today [the internet] is a connection between real people with real feelings and real hearts that hurt..." In my work I deal with people's pain on a daily basis.
You can steel yourself against these slings and arrows, but what came for TOP was not generated by a robot, but from a real person who said awful things despite our nearly 10 years of good faith posting.
But I am glad to see others resilient and meeting here and at Lem's. There are so many good people.
I have my own faults, too many to count, and won't pretend I could do better.
But I have learned much more on these posts than I ever could have reading books on my own. Plus for introverts, this is a great way to talk to others.
I'm not suggesting anyone give up on Lem's. I'm saying something more along the lines of this:
As Pogo points out, an Internet community is about connections. It's not about software or URLs or anything else.
When a group of RPGers got kicked off CompuServe (because of a squabble the forum holder felt was not worth the effort to manage any more, sound familiar?), I set up a website to serve the same purpose.
This worked because the people involved wanted to preserve the community. If blogspot shut down tomorrow, would it be "giving up on Lem's" to start a new site with the same people?
As you point out, Lem's under a lot of pressure and doesn't feel safe on his own blog. Even if he has the fortitude to block out people, he doesn't really have the tools, and it's a lot to ask him.
So why not keep the spirit of the blog, even the name, but make Lem's a more honorary role, so that he can't be held liable for what goes on. Use a platform that allows for tight/easy control over those who act with ill will.
And, oh, by the way, use a style of formatting that allows for more things to be front-lined. A lot of good stuff gets pushed to the back because, well, that's just how blogger works.
Contributors could have their own panels showing their latest efforts, stuff could be organized by what's hot, I'd bet someone like Chip could work miracles with a little layout control, etc.
Communities take effort to build and maintain, but the price of using throwaway stuff like blogger is that you lose a lot of capability.
I did not set out to make Sixty an enemy. He chose to take offense. I offered an apology but he did not accept.
I expect to hear from him in every thread at Lem's from now on as that is his style. He has to do what's right for him. I would expect nothing less from him.
I agree with what you are saying blake. I just don't want to leave Lem hanging. He provided a great place to gather and I hope it can be preserved.
I think once the one year anniversary passes that it will calm down. Larry is posting with a purpose.
DBQ point are well taken. But like Pogo I am weak sometimes. I have to do better.
I'm not suggesting a mass defection or that any of this be done without Lem's approval.
But if he's stressed enough to consider shutting it down, I don't see anything wrong with providing him a way to preserve what's good while taking the burden off his shoulders.
Obviously, this can't work unless Lem and the contributors agree, and I only offer it as an alternative because y'all get so worked up.
But maybe that's fun. I dunno.
It is a way to while away a summer afternoon between bra sales. Just sayn'
Hey, I'm an engineer. If I hear complaining, I think "This is a problem to be fixed."
And I hear that even if I know a person really, really enjoys complaining and having that problem.
I should know better.
Oh. So you are like Casey Jones?
Without the goofy hat, yes.
Obligatory
Blake, I'm no engineer, but it took me a long time to figure out that some people just want to complain - they don't want a solution.
Or rather, they're happier complaining and do things a certain way, than changing.
Nothing wrong with that. Not my style, but what the heck.
However, I am a grump with a low tolerance for drama and odd behavior. I tired of the "Titus Comedy hour" and Ingra, and Crack, way, way, before anyone else did.
Which makes me believe I'm somewhat of an uptight, bore, but that's the way I roll.
Wow, a lot of stuff happening.
I like Sixty, even though he occasionally goes off on me. The Roger Clemens reference is spot on.
I do not want Lem to pull the plug. I think he has a unique blog with great contributors and readers (for the most part).
I don't think Lem is thinking about that. At least I hope not. But blogging can be a thankless task.
Having the Dirty Bird show up and shit all over the threads doesn't help.
rc--
Uptight bores of the world unite!
Wait, no...not like that...you're doing it wrong!
Flood his wife's inbox with comments.
So long as they are missives and not emissives. E-missives are a whole 'nother thing.
I don't think anyone has touched her box in a long time.
That's the heart of the problem.
Ewe!
Dust in the queef wind.
E-missives are a whole 'nother thing.
E-missives were what won Althouse over according to Meade's revised history. It had little to nothing to do with his commenting. That's why the NYT was lying when they promulgated the big Althouse-Meade story.
@Haz, your comment over at Lem's is apt to land you and Lem in hot water. That was the exact topic which launched them at me: the timing of Meade's straying from his first marriage. It doesn't fit their narrative and is the touchiest of subjects.
@Chickelit: they need to be careful when staking claim to the moral high ground.
Oh I know, Haz, but that's the point...they're trying to tightly control the narrative and none of that stuff happened. If you're trying to assert it, you'd better be able to back it up. They are vindictive on this topic.
As far the Sixty/Troop schism: I heard stuff like what Troop said growing up. The pouty mouthed little Irish Catholic boys were the ones who slashed The Blob. What are you gonna do, refight The Reformation?
"Potty-mouthed" not "pouty-mouthed"
I just read all the vitriol over there. I wish I could get our 2 mamalukes together for a sit down. There is no body language, inflection, etc. in this format. I think that is @ the core of this brouhaha. It's just a fucking shame.
Okay, fuck it...I was going to let it pass...BUT, can anyone tell me why Sixty G got all sanctimonious about trying to organize a group to help out another guy? A year ago and alleged he was voted down or something? In my fucking face?
Frankly I do not recall any such effort on his part, but I do distinctly recall the contributions of several others...whom I can name but won't without their permission, which I am not seeking.
Yes, I lost my temper and challenged him to put up or shut up. In short, I was an asshole I guess. And I followed through on that challenge...he was silent.
Am I forgetting something? [It is possible] or am I just misunderstanding the whole thing?
Somebody tell me honestly WTF happened? I am capable of apology if it is warranted. I am not always able to see that fact and need to be kicked in the but.
@Ckickelit - my comment purposely did not include names. I believe yours did, or maybe I'm misremembering that event.
@Haz: I don't see how my comment could have mentioned any names -- I don't even know Meade's ex-wife's name.
And yes, I noticed that your comment lacked names too. Sixty's did not. I would have stricken it for that reason.
@Aridog: I don't recall Sixty opposing any relief efforts. Are you speaking about Palladian in particular? Sixty has offered to help me on several occasions.
Let me add something intemperate to this discussion. I am tired of people trying to guilt others into helping others financially when they may be struggling themselves.
Wait, a puff piece in the New York Times was...false?
The deuce you say!
Blake, you are "upright" I am "Uptight".
However, your skepticism toward the NYT strikes me as somewhat "extreme".
Johnny McCain might regard you as a "Wacko-bird".
I am puzzled at the idea that Meade was married when he started dating Althouse. As far as I know, it is not true.
I believe he was married when he started commenting, but shortly after was going through a divorce. Remember the "Tell it to Althouse!" comment?
It was years later that they had their first date. Not saying he wasn't pursuing her, just that I don't believe she took his pursuit seriously until - well, until he asked her to that movie date.
Not that it's any of my business. I just don't want to see anyone getting into trouble for a misunderstanding.
And...aww! I'm a good angel!
Hehehe. Reminds me of my sister, when we were in our late teens, telling me, "Mom and Dad think you're an angel!". She was annoyed/astonished, of course. =)
Ari, I can't help you. I tend to forget stuff like that. Having met Trooper I know that the chances of a conflict such as this one w/ Trooper would almost certainly no have happened if it was in person. 80% of all communication is nonverbal. Hell, I never wanted to interview key witnesses by phone, much less in writing. The only take I have about you and 60 is he was really pissed and you seemed to be nearby. I could be talking outta my ass. But, @ least I didn't shit myself like that cheerleader.
Sixty has a Scotch-Irish temper, and it is not only scotch or Irish whisky that fuels it, bourbon does it too. If he was the Most Interesting Man in the World he would say: "I don't drink all the time, but when I do I will kick the tar out of you…"
I like him, even if he is an asshole at times. He is interesting. I hope he comes around.
This video reminds me of Sixty…
"Almighty God, You have provided us with countless ways of sharing our thoughts and ideas with the world. Let our technology always be a means of fulfilling Your plan of spreading the Gospel and being a light on the hill.
You gave Your servant, Archbishop Fulton Sheen, the zeal to teach the truths of the Faith by using mass media as his vehicle. Help me to remember that I am a representative of Christ both online and offline. Grant that I may avoid anger and ridicule in favor of patience and charity. May the Holy Spirit inspire my words and make me receptive to Your Divine Plan. I ask this through the intercession of Mary, Our Mother, and Servant of God Fulton Sheen.
Amen."
chickelit said...
@Aridog: I don't recall Sixty opposing any relief efforts.
That is not what I said. I said, well in to the exchange, I didn't recall him proposing one previously (as he was on that day 10 June 2014).
Which can make me dead wrong if he did so here, not elsewhere, because at the time I was only at Lem's. If that was the case, I apologize for that error.
Next, Chick, in the interest of clarity vis a vis who did what, I note you stated...
Let me add something intemperate to this discussion. I am tired of people trying to guilt others into helping others financially when they may be struggling themselves.
I'd be the first to agree, and I don't think I've ever initiated any such action, unlike this remark (the first mention of it on that thread):
Sixty Grit said...@ JUNE 10, 2014 AT 6:59 PM on the "I want to say something" thread.
"All this prayer crap is nice, but Pal need money.
I would like to once again ask that we pool our resources and get Evan whatever the fuck he needs to get right - meds, a paint bucket, whatever.
We are people of means and prayer without action is as bullshit as it gets."
That kind of "guilt tripping" is what you meant?
That is also the comment where he asked to be removed from Trooper's list.
The very next comment was by Windbag offering to send a check and asked where?
Subsequently I suggested several people had fulfilled his edict that faith without works is nothing by stepping up long ago...and I added that I had $250 for his "challenge" pertaining to "faith vs works" all he had to do was match it and it would be on the way.
Crickets.
I admit in my arrogance was uncalled for when I threw it in his face with a cut & paste of the PayPal receipt for my part.
Then the conversation went downhill from there.
My error was taking offense to the "Faith versus Works" remark, which I now realize is what I did. Most of my life I've thought that good works should precede declarations of faith and should be based upon one's ability to deliver without a demand to do so. Hell for most of my life I had no faith at all, but I tried to be a decent man when I could, at lest to make up for the times I was not decent.
Next remark, vis a vis the means of people to do things and why guilt tripping is unfair. Again, I agree. Anything I ever do is always based upon the budget I have for the month I'm in...I am not a rich man, but we have a nice life. You do not get rich with a mostly military career. When I said $250 on 10 June that is because that is what I had left in the budget for this month. No intention of "shaming" anyone in general, but I admit malice with the put up or shut up bit to the person, 60-Grit, who raised the issue in the first place. I should have just done my thing and shut up. "Shut up" isn't one of my strong points, but I am getting better.
Finally, when Meade made the remark about the Internet is no big deal, etc...I reacted by saying that was anachronistic, that today it is a viable means for the exchange of ideas, communication, news, and when necessary, assistance to people in need, which is something I know many others have done here and elsewhere, and is one of the reasons I enjoy the company.
I think we will all do what we can do and nobody has to feel bad if they can't or feel pressured. And I don't think anybody meant to put any pressure on anyone else.
Helping people shouldn't be a source of conflict.
Sixty is just a contrary cus.
He first took offense that I invited phx to post here and was very vocal about it. Then he got hot and bothered about a throw away remark I made about Protestants going to hell. Now I apologized if that offended him but that is as far as I am willing to go. I mean sending people to hell is a recurring comic motif here. I have one of my longest series about it. So what am I supposed to say. "Oh don't be mad it was just a joke." That's lame. Fuck that noise.
Sixty can be nasty and hold a grudge. He is just like me. We are too alike in that respect. So I am not going to revisit it with him. I expect him to be going after me at Lem's. I enjoyed it when he did it to Larry and I will endure when he does it to me. It's the internet and you should be able to say what you want.
That's what started this nonsense in the first place.
"Helping people shouldn't be a source of conflict."
That's what Martin Luther was trying to say!
That and the Pope is the antiChrist, but I think Trooper agrees with that one too.
Gosh I hate the rift with Sixty. He has a good heart. I think a simple misunderstanding snowballed.
Come home, Sixty.
You might be right about this Pope Paddy. He is too nice to the dirty Prods. Doesn't he know they always turn on you.
Martin Luther should have taught you that!
Too bad Fulton Sheen got called home, eh, Haz?
Is it wrong that I hope I die before Troop so he can write me into Hell?
I want to be more like Fulton Sheen but I fear I am a lot more like Charlie Sheen.
Maybe ricpic (speaking of people who don't post here any more) put the sheeny curse on you.
Heh. "Sheeny curse". Racism is really goofy from a distance.
"Martin Luther should have taught you that!"
Also, stay away from the peasants!
And, if you're controversial have a rich, powerful friend whose house you can stay at.
That's why I'm not controversial yet.
And yes, the prods will turn on you, so you have to be careful, but those papists? They'll hunt you down start taking pieces out of your body.
Faith is very tricky!
But they'll be straightforward about it, so there's that.
Hey you have to do something first for us to snip something. Not like those hebes. They snip you right off the bat when you are a baby.
They even did it to the little Baby Jesus.
I mean sending people to hell is a recurring comic motif here. I have one of my longest series about it. So what am I supposed to say. "Oh don't be mad it was just a joke." That's lame. Fuck that noise.
It's fun until it isn't. That same thread holds a statement about hell that appeared to me to have been said in dead seriousness by a practicing Catholic. "There is a hell and one does not wish one's worst enemy to land there. It's for eternity and it's bad. Turn.
Turn from what? was the question that came up for me when I read that.
I know from my own experience that children who've lived with abuse or been forced to witness it second hand have already experienced hell, a place where no one, not even God comes to their rescue. When religiosity and/or a religious spirit covers the event the desolation is especially heinous. Do glimmers of light and ministering angels appear? Yes, the do, just as they did in Gethsemane. They don't however remove the cross that must be carried and worked through for the rest of one's life.
So for me, joking about hell doesn't work. I mostly pass over those posts here. I don't know what went on with Sixty Grit, but I do know what happens to me when non-joking statements about eternal punishment are delivered as a certainty rather than a belief. When religious people, born again Christians, dirty Prods or practicing Catholics who hold similar beliefs in eternal damnation pass their personal pain on to their children through abuse, the kingdom of heaven suffers and hell is made real on earth.
Martin Luther had some serious issues. You guys can have him back.
As far as Hell...and all of life, eternity, destiny, and rewards/punishments...is concerned, I'm completely sold on the concept of the Sovereignty of God. If God wants to save Catholics, it's His prerogative...same for Protestants. Same for Hindus, Democrats, Kennedys, and atheists. It's His call.
I won't pretend to understand His ways or how He works anything out. I used to think I did, but in all reality, back to the fundamental issue, which is that God is God and does what He wants to do. In Isaiah 46, God defines Himself:
I am God, and there is none else; I am God, and there is none like me, declaring the end from the beginning, and from ancient times the things that are not yet done, saying, My counsel shall stand, and I will do all my pleasure...
EBL stated it exactly right for me.
Unless you believe exactly the same as me and are a Yankees and Football Giant fan you are going to burn in Hell.
That is what Father Del Vecchio and Mother Assunta taught me in the first grade at Sacred Hearts and I am sticking with it.
So there.
One day I might be lucky enough to meet MamaM.
What a wonderful post.
I'm sorry. The correct answer was "Mormon".
Troop, you are a pretty easy read (and thank God you are not guarding the pearly gates or I would be completely screwed on baseball team choices).
I can't see Sixty getting too fired up over that comment you made, so I think he was just generally pissed off, blew up (imagine that with Sixty) and now just does not to admit he went off. I have a feeling, call it a hunch, you are not the first person Sixty has done this with.
Ya think?
"pass their personal pain on to their children through abuse, the kingdom of heaven suffers and hell is made real on earth"
I agree. That seems a huge distinction for Jesus. People who were sinners, but living hell, were given a hand up. People who were making hell for others, they were sharply rebuked.
I've been teaching through the Apostle's Creed for a couple years in one of my classes. At first I didn't know what to do with that phrase, Christ descends to hell. Came to be one of my favorite parts (even if its not the most official). Jesus on the cross, as part of his mission, goes to the very place that God is, by definition, not. So, there is no where that Jesus won't go to, nowhere that lacks hope.
But that's not diminishing the pain. Jesus goes to hell and brings hope to people experiencing hell, but they've still had the experience of hell.
There's hope in the most hopeless places, but heaven will turn against you should you be one who leads someone into that pain and despair.
I have my opinions on Hell and who goes there, but it does end up a bit like Windbag summarizes. God gets to do what God wants to do. I think he gives some indications, but it's his play.
That being said, there's likely gonna be a number of popes and prod preachers out of luck.
"for us to snip something."
That's why papists have the advantage. Try snipping bits out of them, it's not problem. They can make new flesh anytime they want.
(communion jokes going too far?)
Blake, that is a funny South Park
It is! It's also a dead ringer for this Rowan Atkinson bit.
A quick comparison of Evi's front page to Lem's suggests to me that Lem has found a winning formula for "keeping it civil" at his blog: Boredom.
If life goes in stages, like steps, Lem might be coming to the end of one run and facing the next vertical climb. It's not just about finding a place to stand with regard to Meade's behavior, which is confusing enough when he appears friendly and fun one moment and viciously destructive the next, Lem would also benefit from clarifying his own goals for the blog along with his expectations from blog contributors. Inviting more participation from his guest bloggers would be one way to go, and inviting more guest bloggers to participate would be another. Asking whomever is on the roll to commit to at least one post a week would add more variety and dynamic to the blog.
Now that Meade has shown himself to be capricious and unreliable, with Blog Contributors having the power to delete, now seems like the time to start rolling out more, not less. There's no going back to pre-shutdown days, and no use swirling around in a side eddy, when forward is the way to growth and flow.
@MamaM: Would you like to write posts at Lem's? I would strongly recommend you if you wanted to do so.
While I'm all for Lem finding flow and forward motion, chickelit, it's easier for me to preach about it than enter into that stream myself! Your willingness to recommend is a gift I very much appreciate. Thank you. I'll think about it.
She can take my spot. I would not mind at all.
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